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[Spey]

Perhaps make picks dig slow through soil (peasant rock mining speed), and shovels dig normal speed through it, but cannot dig through rock. (or very very slowly through rock [1/4 peasant rock mining speed?])

a pick might not be the most ideal tool to move earth, but I think you underestimate how long it would take to manually excavate the same amount of rock with a pick.

I await the ushering in of dwarven alchemy to speed up rock mining.

[zagibu]

I don't agree that picks work great for soil. They work great to loosen up the soil, but you still have to use a shovel to remove it. I think it would make sense on the abstraction level of a game, if picks, which can be used to mine granite, wouldn't work for soil at all. Picks for stone, shovels for soil. Not everything has to be completely realistic

[Wang Commander]

Picks are for digging soil, shovels are for throwing it away.  You can go just as fast with a big hoe and a bucket or your arms and a basket as you can with a shovel and a bucket, if you're somewhere (like underground) where you can't just throw the dirt out over the side!

[zagibu]

I'd like to see how you dig granite with your hoe. There are different kinds of picks, and granite picks are bad for soil.

[DJ]

It all depends on the soil, really. You can easily dig through clay with just a pick because it stays in big chunks which you can throw out with your hands. Digging through sand without a shovel is a whole different ballgame.

[zagibu]

So, you are proposing special tags for each type of rock/soil that determine how fast it can be mined with either tool? Why not...

[Silverionmox]

Picks are used to break up hard soil materials in order to make it shovelable. Since most soils are soft and can easily be cut with a shovel, there's no need for a pick. Clearing away mining debris should require one, though. Which brings us back to the realistic mining discussion, which was put into the freezer until hauling was fixed.

[BradB]

Hoes also work as great digging tools. After digging a hole with a shovel or spade, and then one with a hoe. You will pick the hoe every time afterward. They are much easier and less tiresome to use, dirt doesn't slide back down the hole, rocks can easily be levered out, hard clay can easily be penetrated with a good swing and then levered out.
The only problem is you cannot directly get soil into a wheelbarrow with one. But other than that, they kick ass.
I can't imagine they'd be very good for tunneling though, thed probably be best suited for channeling.

[Guy Montag]

well, the soil types in the game also include types of clay, dense loam and other hard, dense materials like frozen dirt.

I don't know if you have ever handled and shovel in your life or not, but you really cannot dig through clay or frozen dirt with just a shovel. you'd need a pick to break it up.

The game can be abstracted enough to assume there is something that can be used for a shovel if the player imagines that the dwarf could maybe use one.

There are plenty of tools in the workshops that are never seen in game but are presumed to be there. tracking thousands of different tools needed for every sector of the economy would be a massive headache and would accomplish nothing.

remember guys... this is supposed to be a FUN game.

[Skynet 2.0]

I don't want my miners to all have to carry around shovels just in case they come upon some dirt. Also:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not precisely a pick, it's a mattock, but it can be used as a pickaxe, while still being able to dig through soil. The pickaxe half would be used for breaking up clay or frozen soil, and the shovel end for other types of dirt.

[Belteshazzar]

Better yet use an entrenching tool. It's a pick/shovel/mattock/spike all in one. I have one in my car, just in case of zombies or muggers... or something.

[Deon]

I'd still like to have a separate "digger" type items for soil and rock. You can have both on your pick but it would be great for modding to prevent some minor races like kobolds from high-scale mining but to allow them to dig in dirt still.

[Skynet 2.0]

It would work if it was just for kobolds/humans to have some minor digging abilities, but I don't want to have my dwarves carry around 2 tools, or have a whole new profession for digging in soil. This way, you could give the humans the ability to add basements and such to their houses, and just assume the dwarves are smart enough to flatten one end of their pickaxes.

[G-Flex]

Why wouldn't humans be able to dig through rock? Did they suddenly turn into idiots or something?

[Silverionmox]

They might, but at the level of a novice dwarven miner at best, making it hard enough to avoid it if possible. We don't want all races to act the same, do we? Let the humans have their strenghts as cavalry and sailors.