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Author Topic: Latin American Politics: Fashes gona fash  (Read 41734 times)

JoshuaFH

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Re: Latin American Politics: Fashes gona fash
« Reply #990 on: January 18, 2020, 10:15:04 pm »

Ignorant American coming in: What is Brazil even trying to accomplish? With Nazi Germany, the motivation towards Nazism was pretty clear, if misguided. I'm not familiar with Brazilian history, but I don't think they endured the same things that they did which would spark behavior like this.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Latin American Politics: Fashes gona fash
« Reply #991 on: January 18, 2020, 10:33:16 pm »

Fascism is rising all over due to the disintegration of the capitalist world order - Brazil's specific case is merely that of an early adopter.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Latin American Politics: Fashes gona fash
« Reply #992 on: January 19, 2020, 06:39:28 am »

Fascism is rising all over due to the disintegration of the capitalist world order - Brazil's specific case is merely that of an early adopter.
I argue that fascism is just late-stage capitalism institutionalising the informal compact between corporate and state power

Magistrum

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Re: Latin American Politics: Fashes gona fash
« Reply #993 on: January 19, 2020, 09:55:04 am »

I argue that fascism is just late-stage capitalism institutionalizing the informal compact between corporate and state power
I'm trying to not be convinced at the spot, but it sounds incredibly well descriptive of the recent events. Is there any reading on that?
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LordBaal

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Re: Latin American Politics: Fashes gona fash
« Reply #994 on: January 19, 2020, 12:11:04 pm »

The socialism actually ends up in fascism as well, everything stems and is with or within the state, if not then you can "go die fascist pig", which is one of the most amusing ironies I can find, if very sad too.

And nazis rounding up communist doesn't mean communist is good. It was just your regular case of stupid vs stupid. The communist got ample change of revenge too, which... was karmic?
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Magistrum

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Re: Latin American Politics: Fashes gona fash
« Reply #995 on: January 19, 2020, 12:16:30 pm »

Seems like you are conflating totalitarianism with fascism. There is a good case to be made about socialism inciting totalitarianism but it seems hard to rationalize nationalist zealotry with socialist ideals. Specially if you try to give the "you guys are the same as fascists" routine to the anarchists.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Latin American Politics: Fashes gona fash
« Reply #996 on: January 19, 2020, 01:48:22 pm »

Fascism is rising all over due to the disintegration of the capitalist world order - Brazil's specific case is merely that of an early adopter.
I argue that fascism is just late-stage capitalism institutionalising the informal compact between corporate and state power
That's true, but incomplete. There are lots of countries which institutionalized that which aren't fascist, though they are typically authoritarian to some degree. Fascism's specific nature of totally denying reality and the qualities listed in Eco's Ur-Fascism is spawned from the damage space where liberalism has been burned away.
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Magistrum

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Re: Latin American Politics: Fashes gona fash
« Reply #997 on: January 19, 2020, 02:00:14 pm »

Here's a good topic I don't often see discussed, what are the common causes of the recent extreme right-wing push world wide? Is the heat "melting peoples brain" and making them more violent like the Arab Spring deal people used to talk about?
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LordBaal

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Re: Latin American Politics: Fashes gona fash
« Reply #998 on: January 19, 2020, 06:06:38 pm »

I would argue it's actually otherwise and it's a huge far left push that's sweeping gullible people everywhere.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Latin American Politics: Fashes gona fash
« Reply #999 on: January 19, 2020, 06:38:14 pm »

I'm trying to not be convinced at the spot, but it sounds incredibly well descriptive of the recent events. Is there any reading on that?
I don't remember anything specific off the top of my head, but if you look into corporatism and the economics of fascist Italy or Nazi Germany there'll be lots of reading material there. The short end of the stick there was that a few dominant corporations were given state support to crush their domestic competition, but in turn were subordinated to official state purposes.

I agree with MSH though, that this is part of the definition but not sufficient, because there are systems like China or Singapore where the above describes the economy but they are not fascist. I still ponder what *exactly* fascism is, but I imagine that's part of the problem. Hard to recognise fascism until you've sleepwalked into it

sluissa

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Re: Latin American Politics: Fashes gona fash
« Reply #1000 on: January 19, 2020, 09:01:08 pm »

Here's a good topic I don't often see discussed, what are the common causes of the recent extreme right-wing push world wide? Is the heat "melting peoples brain" and making them more violent like the Arab Spring deal people used to talk about?

I see it as a response to world governments getting more and more tall and top heavy and people on the ground feeling more and more like they have no voice.

Granted, I think this is more of a universal thing. The party in power always ends up in a position where some chunk of people aren't happy. The people who are happy get complacent about the status quo. The whole thing flips on its head. It's a pendulum. Political changes are always a matter of someone promising to make things better and usually failing to fulfill those promises.

I would argue it's actually otherwise and it's a huge far left push that's sweeping gullible people everywhere.

There's definitely been a significant right wing push in some areas, but others have seen left wing pushes as well. For the most part it doesn't really matter, it's just politicians picking whichever phrasing they think is convenient to gather the support of the angry. It's populism whether it's left or right wing and it typically ends up being an extreme of one or the other because compromise and moderation doesn't make anyone happy.
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Magistrum

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Re: Latin American Politics: Fashes gona fash
« Reply #1001 on: January 20, 2020, 11:53:45 am »

I guess it would seem like a right wing push to me since I live in Brazil and that's the latest development here.
I agree with MSH though, that this is part of the definition but not sufficient, because there are systems like China or Singapore where the above describes the economy but they are not fascist. I still ponder what *exactly* fascism is, but I imagine that's part of the problem. Hard to recognise fascism until you've sleepwalked into it
Yeah, there's certainly more at play here.
On China tough? I'm sure it is down the fascism route hard, with term limits abolished, concentration camps and civil unrest repression to boot.
I mean, back when term limits were remove I was convinced, but after the whole Meng Hongwei shitshow it's clear they have no respect for international cooperation or due process.
Let's hope Xi is public disgraced as his antecessor and they roll-back the most egregious violations of individual liberty. Or, you know, revolution.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Latin American Politics: Fashes gona fash
« Reply #1002 on: January 20, 2020, 04:36:17 pm »

Yeah, there's certainly more at play here.
On China tough? I'm sure it is down the fascism route hard, with term limits abolished, concentration camps and civil unrest repression to boot.
You could find all of those things in a monarchy, a colonial democracy, a liberal dictatorship or a communist dictatorship too though, wouldn't make them fascist. There are multiple flavours of authoritarian regime from which we may taste the various rainbows of pain

I mean, back when term limits were remove I was convinced, but after the whole Meng Hongwei shitshow it's clear they have no respect for international cooperation or due process.
Let's hope Xi is public disgraced as his antecessor and they roll-back the most egregious violations of individual liberty. Or, you know, revolution.
Nah he's not lost heaven's mandate. Besides, revolution would just create the chaos to place a new strongman in power
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