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Author Topic: AmeriPol thread  (Read 3692970 times)

McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52770 on: June 12, 2024, 11:12:24 am »

So the media response to Hunter is as expected.

I'm now acknowledging, sadly, that segments of the population are really just not interested in objective reality. They will spin anything into their agenda.  This is quite terrifying, and nothing new: "If you can convince people to believe absurdities, you can get them to commit atrocities" as Voltaire said (probably not exact words, but close enough).

I don't know there is actually any defense for such a situation.  I'm wondering what finally causes this situation to play itself out... It really does seem like some kind of memetic disease.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52771 on: June 12, 2024, 11:23:25 am »

So the media response to Hunter is as expected.

I'm now acknowledging, sadly, that segments of the population are really just not interested in objective reality. They will spin anything into their agenda.  This is quite terrifying, and nothing new: "If you can convince people to believe absurdities, you can get them to commit atrocities" as Voltaire said (probably not exact words, but close enough).

I don't know there is actually any defense for such a situation.  I'm wondering what finally causes this situation to play itself out... It really does seem like some kind of memetic disease.

Could you clarify what you mean by "the media response"? Because right-leaning pundits are trying to make political capital out of it, but everybody else is treating it as exactly what it is - a fairly unimportant person who happens to be related to somebody important getting convicted of relatively low-impact crimes.
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McTraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52772 on: June 12, 2024, 11:29:42 am »

Yes I was referring to the vocal far-right media.
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52773 on: June 12, 2024, 02:44:15 pm »

"If you can convince people to believe absurdities, you can get them to commit atrocities" as Voltaire said (probably not exact words, but close enough).
I happen to know this one, with a quick online refresher to make sure. "Certainement qui est en droit de vous rendre absurde, est en droit de vous rendre injuste."

Which a given online translator (because I don't trust my own French, even with such clear and uncomplicated language!) renders as "Certainly he who has the right to make you absurd has the right to make you unjust." But the reinterpretation, along with the translation, of the popularised version isn't exactly wrong either. Slightly different slant, but not far off.


(The More You Know...)
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Ziusudra

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52774 on: June 13, 2024, 12:46:28 am »

far better to trust this guy's translation than fucking google's
https://www.gf.org/fellows/norman-l-torrey/
and in context, it becomes clear that the machine translation is lacking and that Torrey's more completely conveys the intent:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Starver

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52775 on: June 13, 2024, 02:36:33 am »

I indeed saw Torrey mentioned when checking my (French-imperfect) memory of the original... Ah, yes, here: https://voltairefoundation.wordpress.com/2021/02/16/voltaire-on-capitol-hill-anyone-who-can-make-you-believe-absurdities-can-make-you-commit-atrocities/

No idea which side of this "battle of the experts" has most merit, hence my transparency, but at least we do now have the requested exact words. Useful to any actual francophones, here, of whom I am clearly not. (Yes, I know I could set up "<insert name here>foundation.wordpress.com" pages for anyone, but there are "equal but opposite experts" even within/between tenured staffrooms.)


Spoiler (click to show/hide)


edit for tyops
« Last Edit: June 13, 2024, 02:46:32 am by Starver »
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hector13

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52776 on: June 13, 2024, 02:43:04 am »

I’S MURIPOL, WHO CARES WHAT SOME FROG SAID CENTURIES AGO.

*ahem*

TIL Holly Valance is a Trump supporter wtf
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anewaname

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52777 on: June 13, 2024, 01:37:55 pm »

Holly Valance..... "Valance, 41, who now lives in the UK with her billionaire property developer and Tory Party donor husband Nick Candy, told GB News earlier this year that "everyone starts as a lefty", but "wakes up... then realise what crap ideas they all are”. "And then you go to the right.”

Her change of view is related to her social status change. Just another parrot that wants more crackers.
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nenjin

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52778 on: June 14, 2024, 10:46:32 am »

It's a pretty consistent political phenomenon. The wealthier you are, the more conservative you get.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2024, 10:56:54 am by nenjin »
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Duuvian

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52779 on: June 14, 2024, 11:41:22 pm »

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-covid-propaganda/

Spoiler: From the article (click to show/hide)

Dear Biden. I would like the person who was in charge of this program to be removed from duties if they have not already been. Furthermore I would like an investigation to be launched into this by an outside, non military and non IC affiliated group staffed by people who do not share a political "faction" with the nincompoop. Finally I would urge an evaluation of whether personal ideological beliefs are interfering with effective foreign policy; and also were this vulnerability to be a driver for this collossal fuckupery, to determine whether attemps were made to exploit this vulnerability as the result of foreign influence among individuals and information operations against a wider audience the nincompoop may have been a part of.
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FINISHED original composition:
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Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
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feelotraveller

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52780 on: June 15, 2024, 01:02:16 pm »

I was going to post about this in the Covid thread, but may as well keep it in one place.  (Link to same story.)

I recommend reading it for yourself but a few quotes and a couple of comments below.

Pentagon ran secret anti-vax campaign to undermine China during pandemic

American military ran a concerted Psyops campaign to spread Covid misinformation through social networks.  Almost certainly led to an increased number of Covid deaths. I guess Trump will claim it as part of his 'proud' legacy.

Quote
Through phony internet accounts meant to impersonate Filipinos, the [American] military’s propaganda efforts morphed into an anti-vax campaign. Social media posts decried the quality of face masks, test kits and the first vaccine that would become available in the Philippines – China’s Sinovac inoculation.

Reuters identified at least 300 accounts on X, formerly Twitter, that matched descriptions shared by former U.S. military officials familiar with the Philippines operation.

After Reuters asked X about the accounts, the social media company removed the profiles, determining they were part of a coordinated bot campaign based on activity patterns and internal data.

Internally there were quite a few unhappy with the project:
Quote
“We’re stooping lower than the Chinese and we should not be doing that,” said a former senior State Department official for the region who fought against the military operation.

The targets may have changed but psyops operations continue, albeit with a return to some consultation with the State department.
Quote
Today, the military employs a sprawling ecosystem of social media influencers, front groups and covertly placed digital advertisements to influence overseas audiences, according to current and former military officials.
Guess it's part of the 'democracy' exports from the land of the free. snicker

It wasn't just the Phillipines, in Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Ubekistan and other places across the Muslim world:
Quote
The Pentagon campaign sought to intensify fears about injecting a pig derivative.
(Sinovac has consistently denied that it's vaccine contains porcine materials.)

It was a wide-rangeing campaign that presumably came with a price tag in the hundreds of millions. (The article states that in February of this year the contractor that worked on the campaign won a 493 million contract to continue providing "clandestine influence services" for the military.)
Quote
As part of an internal investigation at X, the social media company used IP addresses and browser data to identify more than 150 phony accounts that were operated from Tampa by U.S. Central Command and its contractors, according to an internal X document reviewed by Reuters.

Quote
The Pentagon also covertly spread its messages on Facebook and Instagram, alarming executives at parent company Meta who had long been tracking the military accounts, according to former military officials.

The government, Facebook argued, was violating Facebook’s policies by operating the bogus accounts and by spreading COVID misinformation.

The military argued that many of its fake accounts were being used for counterterrorism and asked Facebook not to take down the content, according to two people familiar with the exchange.

Right, spreading Covid misinformation is 'counter-terrorism'.  I'd be rolling on the floor laughing if this hadn't contributed to people dying of the virus.

This particular campaign was shut down a few months into the current Biden administration.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52781 on: June 15, 2024, 01:16:50 pm »

This particular campaign was shut down a few months into the current Biden administration.

Worth mentioning that it often takes a significant amount of time for a new admin to bring about changes, just because the US government is an absolutely massive organization where it is pretty much impossible to even find out everything that's going on quickly. It lasting into the Biden administration does not imply that anybody in said administration endorsed it.
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anewaname

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52782 on: June 15, 2024, 01:35:35 pm »

More misuse of the CIA and the overseas-military for somebody's business profits... at least they didn't start a war over it.
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How did I manage to successfully apply the lessons of The Screwtape Letters to my perceptions of big grocery stores?
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Duuvian

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Re: AmeriPol thread
« Reply #52783 on: June 18, 2024, 05:55:49 am »

This particular campaign was shut down a few months into the current Biden administration.

Worth mentioning that it often takes a significant amount of time for a new admin to bring about changes, just because the US government is an absolutely massive organization where it is pretty much impossible to even find out everything that's going on quickly. It lasting into the Biden administration does not imply that anybody in said administration endorsed it.

Yeah looks like a real change and not standard buttcovering format
https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-accuses-us-malign-intention-discredit-its-covid-vaccines-2024-06-18/
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Uhoh better make the pandemic worse and victimize civilians under an allied government, that'll absolutely work to solve the issue presented just like it always does. In fact, let's make sure there's no practical benefit to doing so other than the personal career prospects of mandatory participation in a conservative circle jerk.

So I guess the question I should ask now, being an avid reader of the international news, is how close are we to using government public influence campaigns in allied countries to help elect centrist business and security profiteer interest corrupt candidates and drive the left reformists out of politics, even if they have nothing to do with foreign opponents? It seems like that would be a path to gradual political failure (ask Macron) or leadership who have been ¢onvinced we don't have to do a green transition to reduce the influence energy producers have on our governments, having forgotten the lesson of only a pair of years ago wherein this idea of reliance on foreign energy supply was tested and found very wanting and "escalatory".

Efforts directed to such ends seem like more of a malign influence attack than a what appeared even back then to be an accusation without any legs. Our psychological warfare specialists should be on that energy transition, no? Busy pushing this energy policy that very much is in the US government's interest, even as an energy exporter (because the US energy sector survives at the pleasure of OPEC, and such criminal dealing now known to enjoy this favor). Otherwise it would appear to be a hijacking of government authority by an oppresively corrupt political cause that is furthering policies that primarily benefit foreign adversaries. This, I have been convinced, is a big no-no.
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FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit
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