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Author Topic: I like anime, do you like anime?  (Read 2803889 times)

Max™

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30255 on: April 19, 2017, 05:57:24 pm »

Dunno, I didn't care about Kaleid outside of "oh hey, girls kissing, cool, anyway..." until I learned what happens later in the story and was like "aight then, let's jump into loliland I guess" since I had just binged through UBW and Zero with the missus.
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itisnotlogical

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30256 on: April 19, 2017, 06:37:50 pm »

My opinion on fanservice is a definite, resounding "depends on the specific show." Some shows do great with fanservice, others not so much. There's moments (few and far between) in Hokuto no Ken that I think are supposed to be fanservice, yet fall totally flat for a number of reasons. Other shows have it and shouldn't, yet other shows work because the entire premise is a vehicle for ridiculous fanservice and raunchy comedy.

I guess my main complaint about fanservice is that often the shows don't own up to it, if that makes sense? Like they'll covertly slip a panty shot or whatever into a totally normal scene. If you're going to go that far, just write a trashy scene or swimsuit episode and deliver all the fanservice you want.
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Max™

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30257 on: April 19, 2017, 08:12:24 pm »

Agreed about Darkness btw, and I enjoyed it as well, just saying it's not about plot as much as PLOT, or so the joke goes.
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Cruxador

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30258 on: April 19, 2017, 09:59:36 pm »

Warning: Opinions.

Same with Keijo!!!!
Keijo was a legitimately good comedy that riffed on sports anime while also being reasonably engaging in that same vein. Maybe some people watched it because they just love them some anime tiddies, but that's far from the only legitimate reason to watch it. And perhaps this is naïve, but I think there are plenty of people who can watch a show that has girls in swimsuits without their entire brain being hijacked by the kind of puerile teenage sexuality that seems ubiquitous in the rhetoric of the anglosphere.

I guess my main complaint about fanservice is that often the shows don't own up to it, if that makes sense? Like they'll covertly slip a panty shot or whatever into a totally normal scene. If you're going to go that far, just write a trashy scene or swimsuit episode and deliver all the fanservice you want.
I don't really see it the same way. Consider a world in which every female wears a short skirt, but also overacts everything and as such physical movements are super exaggerated. Seeing panties occasionally is a natural result of physics in that situation. I mean, that's not to say that there's no case in anime where something fits your description and it's shit. But something that you could argue is "fanservice" that's totally treated as normal? If it's something like people not freaking out when a girl has a short skirt in a setting where everyone has a short skirt, that is normal. Treating it as normal is what they should do, because it is.
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Elephant Parade

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30259 on: April 19, 2017, 10:25:29 pm »

Consider a world in which every female wears a short skirt
This is already problematic. Why, exactly, does every female wear a short skirt? No, seriously: in what context would the primary purpose of that not be titillation?

but also overacts everything and as such physical movements are super exaggerated. Seeing panties occasionally is a natural result of physics in that situation.
This sounds like a situation specifically set up so the viewers can see panties, which isn't natural at all.

(Edit: Well, it might be natural in-universe, but it's certainly deliberate out-of-universe, and both must be taken into account. No piece of media exists in a vacuum, after all.)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 10:29:30 pm by Elephant Parade »
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Reelya

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30260 on: April 20, 2017, 12:26:01 am »

I remember a similar argument on western vs Japanese "service".

e.g. some were arguing that e.g. Powergirl's boob-window isn't fanservice because it's "part of her standard costume", whereas anime fanservice e.g. glimpses of panties, that is fanservice.

I think that sort the distinction misses the point that the creators have control at the meta-level. e.g. on a shot-by-shot basis you can frame things for how sexy they are. And you can't tell me the guys who create Powergirl don't consider how sexy her action poses are, they definitely do, and they put her in situations in which they can give her a nice sexy battle pose which shows of her famous boob-window. That's definitely fan-service. The very decision to give her a boob-window and the poses they put her in, those constitute fanservice at the basic and meta level.

As for the "they always were short skirts so it is inevitably sexy" doesn't really hold up that well, because there is no "well that's how it is" that isn't in the creator's direct control. It's not like the Grammy Awards where there is a wardrobe malfunction and you see tiddy and you go "well those things just happen sometimes", everything in fiction, especially animation has been carefully scripted down to the last single frame.

Consider Highschool DxD, the hero has a power that can remotely explode girl's clothing. So "that's just how it is, you see" because girls ending up nude is just a natural result of physics in that situation. Except the creators have complete control of how everything works in this series right up to the meta-plot level. There's no randomness, everything is a result of deliberate decisions.

While I do enjoy a lot of series that have fanservice, I think that there's really no excuse for rationalizing things as "natural". In fact if it feels that natural that implies that the decision to include fanservice was made at a more "meta" level, e.g. it's been designed in as a more pervasive thing. e.g. if the "sexy shot" is a specific sequence, e.g. a shower scene, then that's the decision to create one a sexy scene in a sequence. Whereas if it's "all the girls in this show wear ultra-short miniskirts", well that's a decision for the fanservice to pervade every pore of the show's existence.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 12:33:06 am by Reelya »
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30261 on: April 20, 2017, 12:33:51 am »

What makes me sad is that Fairy Tail used to (season 1) be my example of just because someone's boobs and proportions are huge, that through proper framing it doesn't mean they are an objectified character.

Heck she even rips off her clothing and I'd STILL praise it as a well executed scene.

But... yeah... We all know how that ended...

Suffice it to say the importance about Fanservice is how much it respects the character and how it adds or detracts from the scene.
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Cruxador

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30262 on: April 20, 2017, 01:43:53 am »

Consider a world in which every female wears a short skirt
This is already problematic. Why, exactly, does every female wear a short skirt?
If they go to school in Tokyo? I mean, a lot of anime is based on schools and Tokyo is the nation's most prominent city. So it makes sense that even the anime set in fictional cities take a big part of their inspiration from the capitol.

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but also overacts everything and as such physical movements are super exaggerated. Seeing panties occasionally is a natural result of physics in that situation.
This sounds like a situation specifically set up so the viewers can see panties, which isn't natural at all.

(Edit: Well, it might be natural in-universe, but it's certainly deliberate out-of-universe, and both must be taken into account. No piece of media exists in a vacuum, after all.)
It's prevalent for reasons pertaining to the nature of anime in general, certainly. But nothing I mentioned is specific to fan service heavy shows, or even shows with adult or male audiences. Hell, it's more common to physically exaggerate things in kid shows.

As for the "they always were short skirts so it is inevitably sexy" doesn't really hold up that well, because there is no "well that's how it is" that isn't in the creator's direct control. It's not like the Grammy Awards where there is a wardrobe malfunction and you see tiddy and you go "well those things just happen sometimes", everything in fiction, especially animation has been carefully scripted down to the last single frame.
Yeah, but at some point art has to follow reality. Barring cultural sensibilities that inspire censorship, there's no reason to specifically bar underwear from appearing in a show. If your concept calls for a girl to be recognizably school-aged, that means a skirt, and (given Tokyo's media dominance) probably a short one. And if your concept calls for fighting, sports, or even pratfalls, there's probably going to be cases where the skirt is in a position other than hanging demurely at the character's side.

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While I do enjoy a lot of series that have fanservice, I think that there's really no excuse for rationalizing things as "natural". In fact if it feels that natural that implies that the decision to include fanservice was made at a more "meta" level, e.g. it's been designed in as a more pervasive thing. e.g. if the "sexy shot" is a specific sequence, e.g. a shower scene, then that's the decision to create one a sexy scene in a sequence. Whereas if it's "all the girls in this show wear ultra-short miniskirts", well that's a decision for the fanservice to pervade every pore of the show's existence.
Something like "the main character makes clothes explode" is almost certainly going to be for titillation. I can conceive of other possibilities, but none that would actually get an anime. But something that shows more skin than your culture likes isn't necessarily going to be just about sex appeal by default. You can call it a meta-decision, but I think more often it's a non-decision. The studio goes with the default to their culture or industry, without necessarily going into the why or if too deeply, simply because this isn't related to the vision or original work, and thus is an ancillary detail.

That's without getting into differences in cultural perspectives on nudity. Where the west sees it as inherently sexual, the East sees it more heavily as embarrassing, and we see it used comedically more, or to signify that a character lacks propriety and dignity in an entirely non-sexual way, like with Aqua in KonoSuba. But that's a whole nother kettle of fish.
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Gentlefish

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30263 on: April 20, 2017, 02:09:11 am »

tbf, the guy did write Oreimo, and while kirino is shit tier waifu, at least the guy didn't pull a not-blood-siblings schtick on the elephant in the living room.

Kirino's a great Tsundere.

also onii-chan isn't a shithead in eromanga-sensei. Fucking Kyouske. It got toned down in the anime but he was a total creep.

Myrand95

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30264 on: April 20, 2017, 08:01:01 am »

hi. I enjoy anime movies too! :)
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Max™

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30265 on: April 20, 2017, 09:51:02 am »

So I'm puzzled because you used "anglosphere" in terms of "puerile teenage sexuality" and don't seem to have been intending it as an ironic comment, Cruxador.

This isn't Snow Crash, and dick jokes and lewd art is in no way even remotely "just a western thing" it's literally one of our oldest and most persistent traits, indeed it seems it predates humanity, going way back to some of our ancestors back along the primate family tree.
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Solifuge

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30266 on: April 20, 2017, 10:13:51 am »

indeed it seems it predates humanity, going way back to some of our ancestors back along the primate family tree.

Ah yes, the famous "Shut-in ape pratfalls face first into tsundere ape's boobs and gets called a letcher", relief. Found carved in the upper branches of a tree that predates Mesopotamian Civilization.
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Cruxador

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30267 on: April 20, 2017, 10:18:53 am »

So I'm puzzled because you used "anglosphere" in terms of "puerile teenage sexuality" and don't seem to have been intending it as an ironic comment, Cruxador.

This isn't Snow Crash, and dick jokes and lewd art is in no way even remotely "just a western thing" it's literally one of our oldest and most persistent traits, indeed it seems it predates humanity, going way back to some of our ancestors back along the primate family tree.
What I was talking about and what you inferred seem pretty much unrelated. Yes, dick jokes and lascivious imagery are ubiquitous everywhere. I meant taking the decidedly teenage focus on sexual traits and turning them into a Big Fucking Deal, and expanding that to all layers of society. Granted, turning everything into a Big Fucking Deal is a pretty pervasive trait of anglophonic cultures in general, but still. You don't see the same kind of obsession anywhere I've been that doesn't have English as the main language. I guess predominantly Muslim countries are allegedly even worse about it, but that's something I've only really heard from the sort of sources that are really not reliable, since I've never lived in one and the topic hasn't come up with someone who has.

But yeah, most people globally don't assume that a flash of underwear or a jiggly tit are going to send you into giggling fits or scrambling to hide a growing bulge in your pants.

hi. I enjoy anime movies too! :)
I never really catch the movies. They tend to not get enough fanfare to remind me of their existence. Plus it's a longer time commitment.
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itisnotlogical

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30268 on: April 20, 2017, 10:27:13 am »

My local theater gets fucking nothing, so I usually just don't bother with anime films unless it's on Netflix or something like that.
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Reelya

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #30269 on: April 20, 2017, 11:08:33 am »

I should start keeping tabs on the movies from the season charts
https://myanimelist.net/anime/season

Ok these sound interesting:

Yoru wa Mijikashi Arukeyo Otome - by the Tatami Galaxy director, Yuasa Masaaki! The plot sounds different but it's got some common imagery happening to Tatami Galaxy, so might be an original plot but riffing on some of the same themes.

Blame! Movie - same mangaka as Knights of Sidonia, Blame! was his earlier manga

Biohazard: Vendetta - more cheesy crappy CGI zombie bloodbaths. Good fun however.

Yuuki Yuuna wa Yuusha de Aru - Movie 2. Would be even better if I saw movie 1.

Yoake Tsugeru Lu no Uta Whaaaaat. Another Yuasa Masaaki movie, at the same time.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 11:10:25 am by Reelya »
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