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[Inarius]

Well, i do like the change. It force you to be more strategic and think a bit more, and raise difficulty in Zot:5 which is welcome (by me, at least).

And Tomb doesn't suck ! It's just very hard, that's all. I never loose a char in extended unless i'm not well prepared.

[EnigmaticHat]

Hahaha I finally was banished to the abyss.  At character level 9.  Kobold with a dagger of distortion on a relatively low floor.  I lasted surprisingly long... was winning a fight with a draconian shifter before I teleported randomly (despite having -tele?) leaving behind my 9 large rocks that I had thrown at it.  Teleported around I think... 3 more times before I was utterly cornered (no teleport scrolls, literally only one entrance to the room I was in) by a small abomination, large abomination, quassit, and tentacled starspawn.  Killed everything but the tentacled starspawn which did me in.

Actually, I could have gotten out I think... I randomly drank a potion of swiftness, could have cut through one of the tentacles and run.  Haven't played much recently so I'm not used to thinking diagonally...  I doubt I would have actually escaped it regardless.  That was fun, I'm glad I finally got to do that.  I'm under the impression if I wandered randomly there was a chance I might randomly find a gate back to the dungeon, is that true or was I just fucked?

[Graven]

Well, i do like the change. I force you to be more strategic and think a bit more, and raise difficulty in Zot:5 which is welcome (by me, at least).

And Tomb doesn't suck ! It's just very hard, that's all. I never loose a char in extended unless i'm not well prepared.

Ehh...There's not much strategy about random pits dumping you 3 floors down without any counterplay (nor can you really think your way out of it, since it's random and independent on environment), and still very little strategy around rats juggling the player via teleport traps.

I also don't really like Tomb. It's a static layout floor, with one-way stairs, very little in the way of strategy, and right now, with a ton of random teleports because of mummies wandering around the god damn floor. The only challenge I usually face is whether I've stashed enough blink scrolls this run. In general I feel the entirety of extended is poorly designed, but from what I remember, a remake isn't really in the works because relatively few people see it.

edit: @EnigmaticHat - you can run into a gate out, or you can fight enough enemies for the abyss to spawn a gate underneath you. You generally don't want to fight stuff there, especially when lower level, because enemies spawn constantly and any fight is likely to prolong, leading to a constant drain on your consumables. Chugging teleport scrolls and running tends to be the (relatively) best strategy in my experience.

Also edit for better post tone: man I'm having real difficulties not sounding like an asshole these days, what's wrong with me

[EnigmaticHat]

Lol, in my experience if the act of writing up a post makes you unhappy instead of happy, you should probably delete it and go do something else.  Most of my better received internet posts were written in a good state of mind.

[E. Albright]

Well, i do like the change. I force you to be more strategic and think a bit more, and raise difficulty in Zot:5 which is welcome (by me, at least).

And Tomb doesn't suck ! It's just very hard, that's all. I never loose a char in extended unless i'm not well prepared.

If the best argument against declaring something that pervades throughout the entire game a questionable change is that it makes the endgame more challenging for very experienced players... that doesn't make it less questionable. At all.

There's been a lot of highly questionable changes from the dev team over the years, and they eventually drove me away, but this one sounds hard to justify even by their attenuated standards.

[Robsoie]

I'll not add more myself on all of those regular controversial changes as i dislike them all and usually stop to play thanks to them after trying to come back to the game, but i'm posting because i noticed this very interesting article about the change in the use of seed starting with 0.23 :
http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/behind-the-scenes-on-retrofitting-dcss-seeding

[Inarius]

Well that's really strange. I also like holes, and i like tomb. It gives a bit of adrenaline, and "fear" in my games.
Tomb is still scary for me even after so many visits.
However, I still consider as a noob, and don't have so much experience, maybe you are past this point and want a bit less random and a bit more control on your games, and i can understand that (I suppose you dislike Xom, too ? )

But i'm not there yet, i'm still at around 40 victories and 1000 games. I have a lot to discover. About holes, on the other hand, sometimes it kills me (3 lvl holes, and in the middle of fast monsters, for instance), but i generally manage to survive. You have to be extra careful and "think" a bit more than usual.

[Graven]

Hey man if you like it, that's ultimately the only important thing, never feel pressured to justify Liking A Thing.

I just personally think that since Crawl's philosophy has always been minimization of spoilers/randomness and an emphasis on meaningful, informed tactical choices (or at least this is how every single removal of a feature has been justified) it feels somewhat counter-intuitive to add uncontrollable and un-counterable randomness.

Especially since the idea of enemies using traps on you was in the game before, got removed to major cheers from pretty much everyone, and now is back in; but now coupled with just out-of-the-blue Get Trapped moments while exploring. It's just like... why tho

[Inarius]

hence the use of -Tele rings, scrolls of Fog, and intelligent noise (like scroll of noise, to lure your foes)
In Zot:5 these items are really useful

[Dutchling]

an easy way to make Zot5 a lot less deadly is to add this to your RC

Code: [Select]

: function safeshout()
:   if you.feel_safe() then
:     crawl.sendkeys("tt")
:   else
:     crawl.mpr("A monster is nearby!")
:   end
: end
then make a macro for `===safeshout`. then just hold this for a few hundred turns so you can fight wandering monsters 1v1 (sound doesnt reach that far).

the lungs are a lot easier when there are no enemies left, so all you need to fight are orb guardians in the orb room. there's too too many of those to lure them all realistically.

[Cthulhu]

I got driven off by all the removing fun weird stuff, but  I came back over to see how things are.  Playing a MiGl right now, didn't find oka in the temple so I decided to just do wu jian and see how it goes.  The lunge attack is pretty good, lets me sometimes kill stuff with no retaliation, though I could've just stepped back instead, might help with fast enemies.  The pinning thing doesn't seem super useful except as a way to get an extra blowgun attack, blowgunning till he gets to melee then pinning and switching to melee as he steps back to me, but then again I could just switch to melee in his face if I'm not scared to walk around him once.

Wall Jump and Serpent Lash seem useful though, both to escape and do damage

EDIT:  He died and I started a DECj, going pretty well until a centaur remotely marked me with a trap.  Am now firmly in the fuck this patch camp.

[Micro102]

Started playing the game again. Am noticing a disgustingly large number of acid wands appearing early on, instantly or evnetually killing me.

Am I missing something? Is there some way to defend against this "if you roll a 1 you die" nonsense?

[wobbly]

Yeah the latest version seems a little horrible on the early "your just dead" situations. Had a hornet on dlvl 2 the other day

[Micro102]

O yeah it's gotten worse.

I just finished a game where i go down a staircase, no time to react. I instantly get paralyzed by a unique. About 10 goblins and some priest orcs continue to just nuke me until I die before the paralysis wears off. Note I'm talking about I didn't have a chance to do anything. Immediate paralysis.

[Inarius]

Strange then that the best players can do a 30-40-50 streaks with nearly random classes/races if it's so "random", isn't it ?

No offense, but i think you are confusing bad playing with bad luck.

(and i can't blame you : this game is really hard , there is always a lot of room for improving !)
Some players have a 10% win ratio, some 1% some 0,1%, yet all of them say "it was bad luck, f**** game".
I laugh sometimes at some mistakes i used to make which, while at first look were "bad luck" were just, actually, bad planification/understanding of the game.