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[GlyphGryph]

I was wondering how to deal with invisible guys as a summoner. They've killed me repeatedly, because my summons literally stand around dying, even when the dudes are trapped in an obvious square and I'm telling them "JUST ATTACK THAT FUCKING SQUARE ALREADY".

Stupid idjits.

[Leafsnail]

Good luck doing it with shadow imps... shadow imps are fairly rare compared to the other types and die quickly.  Canines work fine though.

[Rex_Nex]

If a canine sees something invisible, will you see it? Will your imps see something your dog spots?

[Leafsnail]

No.  Although you'll be able to infer its position from all the dogs surrounding and attacking it.

[beorn080]

Be SURE to order your swarm to attack it before it goes invisible if you can though, because if you can't see it, you can't order your horde to attack it specifically, even if they can see it. And they won't attack it until it attacks you, though I think they'll individually attack it as it hits each one.

[Rex_Nex]

You can also tell them to wait, which will have them attack the nearest thing. Its not as good as telling them to bumrush something specific, but its better then having them engage manually.

[MaximumZero]

How does one issue commands? I still haven't figured that out.

[beorn080]

Press 't'. That brings up a list of verbal commands, including just shouting to get things attention.

[MaximumZero]

Neat. Thanks, bro.

[Soadreqm]

You can also tell them to wait, which will have them attack the nearest thing. Its not as good as telling them to bumrush something specific, but its better then having them engage manually.

If you tell them to wait, they'll also scatter. This is a bad thing if you're relying on the protective monster shell to keep the invisible thing away from you.

[Frumple]

The other side to that is that if they're wandering, your critters also have a nonzero chance to wander into the invisible critter and do some damage... they've also got a chance of actually distracting and pulling off whatever's attacking you instead of just damage soaking. I've pre-channel impkilled invisible Sigmund with the former without lucking out with shadow imps, and managed to lose unseen horrors with the latter. It's definitely a thing.

My SOP is definitely tell 'em to wait and take off in the other direction. At most, I might wait until I've managed to hit a corridor -- you almost certainly want them to try wandering if the only direction they can go is toward the enemy.

There's times for both strategies, though. Meat shield is almost certainly better if you're dipping toward stairs, ferex.

[Leafsnail]

"Wait" becomes better once you have Recall - you can wait at a staircase, have your minions wander arounds laying things and suddenly flood the entire room (and possibly even surround the thing that's attacking) as soon as you feel threatened.

Incidentally, ogres are quite fun.  You basically need to be OgHu fo the giant rocks which flatten everything in the early game.  In this character I got min delay on the Giant Spiked Club (and a bit more, in fact... for some reason I was convinced that GSC's have 200 delay), then mastered fighting.  I'm now training invocations to boost Okawaru's abilities a little and to be stronger when I change to TSO, but I'm not entirely sure what I'll put my XP into after I get like 12 in that.

The main draw of being an Og:

You hammer the hill giant like a gong!!!
You skewer the hill giant like a kebab!!!
You shatter the orc skeleton into splinters!!!
You crush the blink frog like a grape!!!
You pound the blink frog like an anvil!!!
You spit the green rat like a pig!!!
You beat the killer bee like a drum!!!

All from the same weapon.

[Rex_Nex]

The downside is the terrible AC and EV throughout midgame. Until you get a dragon armor on or dodging trained up, youre going to be a pincushion. Luckily ogs have great offense so you wont remain a pincushion for long.

I hate Trog. I dont know why, but he always seems to gift the most useless stuff I have ever seen. IIRC Trog and Okawaru are supposed to have the same quality gifts (obviously Trog only gives weapons too), but I always get better stuff from Oka. Uncle Oka loves me. Hence why I hate zerkers.

[Leafsnail]

Hey, I've experienced this complete lack of defence first hand.  Your only defence is indeed to kill everything before it kills you (using rocks earlier, and giant spiky clubs later).

[beorn080]

I hate Trog. I dont know why, but he always seems to gift the most useless stuff I have ever seen. IIRC Trog and Okawaru are supposed to have the same quality gifts (obviously Trog only gives weapons too), but I always get better stuff from Oka. Uncle Oka loves me. Hence why I hate zerkers.

If Trog gives the same quality as Oka, but only in weapons and ammo, of course he is inferior for gifting. You only need, at each given turn, one weapon, and once you get a really good one, you don't typically need any more. Armor, however, has 5? slots, and switching it for branches is highly important.

I'm playing a .11 dev build, and some of the changes so far are really nice. Specifically, you can turn off training for skills under 1, and any applicable skill is available to be trained from the get go, including spellcasting for nonwizard characters. Plus, once you memorize a spell, you can train it, so when you find that lovely necronomicon, you can just memorize necromutation and turn on necromancy to get the skill, rather then trying to find a book with a low end necromancy skill.