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[Servant Corps]

The thread about Obama's victory got me thinking of my own biases as a 'deficit hawk', a flawed political ideology that will be proven wrong in 10 years. I got a burst of inspiration, let see what flaws are in this baby.

There are two new elements added to the game, the Economy, and the National Debt. The Economy can be either in a great depression or grow very very fast. The National Debt is moderate, and can either go down to Nonexistant to Exteremly Dangerous. Also, I'm adding in a new issue: Government Spending/"Social Investment". Very low and the government is very stingy. Very high, and it turns out that there is such a thing as a free lunch.

Arch-Conservatives and Elite Liberals love having a high economy, but each political ideology have different views on how it would work. Arch-Conservatives want to have low government spending (so as to curb the national debt and prevent the US from becoming 'socialist') and low taxation (because of trickle-down Reganomics, and the belief that the people are the best deciders of how to use their money). Elite Liberals want high government spending (stimulate the economy via Kenseyianism) and high taxation (so as to curb the national debt and punish the wealthy).

Essentially, "low tax and low spend" and "high tax and high spend" would, for the most part, not affect the National Debt that much, but it could, if the RNG is Liberal enough. Having liberal Government Spending means that you spend lots of money, and having liberal Taxation laws mean you make a lot of money, so if the RNG works well, you could decrease the National Debt. If the RNG is conservative, it might increase the National Debt.

Now, low taxation and high government spending are both two ways that could also stimulate the economy, making the economy great and awesome. But they might backfire. The best way to stimulate the economy is to have the best of both Liberalism and Conservativism, have the Liberal nanny state and have no taxation. But this would increase the National Debt heavily, so it is like eating your cake and having it too.

For the most part, High Taxation will dampen the effects of High Government Spending on the economy, but not by much to render the Government Spending meaningless. Low Government Spending would dampen the effects of Low Taxation, but not by much to render Low Taxation meaningless either.

Random events can also affect the economy as well, either postive or negative.

Aside from other effects the economy have on raids (say, if times are good, you get more donations, and vice versa)...a good economy (above 'normal') helps the incumbent President (and/or his political party) win the election. A bad economy (below 'normal') helps the incumbent President (and/or his political party) loses the election. A bad economy can help you overthrow the Conservative Presidency during the 2008 election, but if the economy is still bad, you could get kicked out and the Conservative Party can come back into power (not a Conservative President, it could be a Moderate President running under the Conservative Party's banner).

You're going to have to think about how to improve the economy, while at the same time moving towards an Elite Liberal utopia. You may be okay with having high government spending and low taxation, at least to spend yourself out of a recession, but then once the economy is at firm footing, move in to increase taxation. If I implement politicans, I can have LCS Politicans decide to do 'support economic stimulus' actions that support the economy but hurt the national debt, or 'collect taxation/elimante waste' that help the national debt but hurt the economy.

I can't really think of a negative problem for the National Debt, since most people really don't care about the National Debt, it's an "inside-the-beltway" issue. The only thing I could think of is that if the National Debt reaches a very high level, the US will go bankrupt and be bought out by China Inc.

EDIT: I'd like to point out in this simulation that I ignore social security and medicare, which many defict hawks hate with a passion. I prefer to ignore them though, to make it easier to code and give the LCS a chance to actually have a low National Debt.

[Reyyvo]

this is good, except missing one key factor - more humor. the idea in itself is adding realism, but there should be some way that it is satired or small little things that are funny in themselves for this addition. 4/5 if implemented properly as is, 5/5 if you make it funny.

[EuchreJack]

Or, you could have a moderate president win by pretending to be a liberal.

[E. Albright]

I can't really think of a negative problem for the National Debt, since most people really don't care about the National Debt, it's an "inside-the-beltway" issue. The only thing I could think of is that if the National Debt reaches a very high level, the US will go bankrupt and be bought out by China Inc.

I'd say if the debt got too high the creditors step in and use trade sanctions to impose austerity measures for debt servicing (i.e., low spending and high taxes) until it gets to the middle of the road again, at which point pols will be free to do as they please once more. Needless to say, having Asian banks dictating government policy should basically spell the doom for the sitting president (as well as doing no favors to the Congressional majority), so that would serve as a political disincentive to excessively overboard deficits.

[Servant Corps]

What I don't want to have happen is have the LCS attempt to cause a huge National Debt during a Conservative Presidency, thereby causing the Conservative President to lose popularity and allowing the Liberal Party to take over come the next election. That does get counterbalanced by the fact the Liberal Party have to deal with the exact same National Debt problem and may be overturn by the Conservatives, but...still...

The deficit is supposed to be bad for the LCS, not a brand new tool that  can destroy Conservativism.

[jaked122]

This is total bullshit anywhere but LCS. if this is in real life, it is bullshit, if the taxes are low, the companies pay their employees more meaning more money can be taxed while making the employees happy. then the gov't needs not tax anymore than 22%...

I went off on a tangent pertaining to real life

[Rezan]

Uh, low taxes mean that less is going to the government, which in turn means that the government cannot set up programs like free healthcare, free education and various other liberal activities. More taxes (especially for rich people) means more equality.

If you want a real-life example of somewhere this works, just peek at Norway. Granted it has its flaws (in no way saying it's a perfect system here - it could use a few adjustments, along with other things we have set up) but it still works.

[EuchreJack]

This is total bullshit anywhere but LCS. if this is in real life, it is bullshit, if the taxes are low, the companies pay their employees more meaning more money can be taxed while making the employees happy. then the gov't needs not tax anymore than 22%...

I went off on a tangent pertaining to real life

  HA HA HA HA!  Very Funny!  Companies pay their employees the bare minimum they can get away with.  I work for minimum wage, and it's blantantly obvious my employer thinks I get too much.  We also have a progressive tax system, meaning the more you make, the greater percentage of your income gets taxed.

[Servant Corps]

Uh, low taxes mean that less is going to the government, which in turn means that the government cannot set up programs like free healthcare, free education and various other liberal activities. More taxes (especially for rich people) means more equality.

If you want a real-life example of somewhere this works, just peek at Norway. Granted it has its flaws (in no way saying it's a perfect system here - it could use a few adjustments, along with other things we have set up) but it still works.

Which is why L+ society would have said high taxes. However, high taxes would also be coupled with high social spending, which includes, as you say, health care, education, and various other Liberal activites. The benieft of high social spending would boost the economy and counteract the effects of the high taxes. In theory.

Then again, Norway is an exception because the Scadvanian countries also make money via oil.

[mainiac]

Norway does have lots of oil money but oil money isn't prequisite to a welfare state.  Iceland might well be the world's best welfare state and they don't have any oil money.  Sweden is also the classic example of socialism in action and they are practically devoid of oil if memory serves.

[jaked122]

they pay the employees more if there's a union, and happier employees are better employees

[Servant Corps]

Thinking of resurrecting the idea later on, here's the barebones version of it:

If people are concerned about the National Debt, they will be more inclined to opt for Higher Taxes (L+), and for cuts in Welfare Spending (C+), the military (L+), and enviromental regulations (C+). If people are not concerned about the National Debt, people are going to be interested in spreading that Surplus Wealth around by lowering taxes (C+) and increasing Welfare Spending (L+).

If people are concerned about the Economy, they will be more inclined to opt for Lower Taxes (C+), higher Welfare Spending (L+), more Corporate Regulation (L+), and less pollution regulation (C+). Political Violence will also become more attractive during an economic recession. If the Economy starts recovering, people are not going to clamor for increased Taxes and lower Welfare Spending to prevent the economy from overheating, but they will be more interested in rolling back Corporate Regulations (C+) and spending a bit more on the environment to please the greenies (L+).

National Debt is lowered by high Taxes and a good Economy, but is increased by Welfare Spending, Military Spending, and Pollution Regulation. If the National Debt grows too high, the Chinese Communist Party will bail out the United States two times (seeing the US as "too big to fail", but force some heavy "austerity measures for debt servicing" as well as make sitting Presidents rather unpopular. If the United States goes into heavy debt again, the Chinese Communist Party will refuse to bail the United States out, and the US will be forced to declare bankrupcy. The LCS loses.

The Economy is postively affected by Taxes and Welfare Spending, and is negatively affected by Pollution Regulations. Corporate Regulations acts as a wildcard, showcasing capitalism's ability to innovate and compete. The more Conservative Corporate Regulations is, the more free Corporations are to engage in riskier behavior. When times are good, they are good, but when times are bad, then heads start to roll. Essentially, C+ Corporate Regulations allow for Corporations to gamble and win/lose big, while L+ Corporate Regulatons make the economy far more predictable, but also rather sluggish.

I know enviromental regulations doesn't really play much of a role in the National Debt, but I was trying to find a National Debt counterpart to the L+ Military cuts.

[Leafsnail]

Maybe in a C society, the Free Clinic and University hospital cease to be free, and become very expensive in a C+ one.  In a C+ society a rent could also be imposed on the homeless shelter.

[Megaman]

lol. Liberilism is starting to sound like socialism. All heil Stailin!

[Leafsnail]

lol. Liberilism is starting to sound like socialism. All heil Stailin!

Socialism is actually a fairly conservative viewpoint.  The idea is that every man has the right to a job that pays well and with which he can afford to support his family.  This is what the Labour party in Britain used to be about.  It's shifted over to liberalism now, probably an improvement.