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[(name here)]

So, in the fort i made a long time ago for the dwarven cruise ship challange, I deliberately angered the humans so as to have more common and more interesting seiges, and just last night i got the first seige with any local leaders.

2 squads of pikemen/spearmen spawned right next to eachother, lead by a spearmaster local leader and a swordmaster local leader

1 squad of crossbowmen spawned clear across the map, with a spearmaster local leader

1 squad of crossbowmen with an elite crossbowman local leader.

I decided to charge the elite crossbowman with my wrestler/swordman champions in mixed steel and iron plate first. Before i caught up to the human cavlery one of them took a shot to the chest vital organs and promptly bled out. Two more got mauled before the elite crossbowman was finally taken down. Up until that seige, I was unaware that anything short of demons or megabeasts could take down a quadruple champion.

Gladly, only two more ranged local leaders even exist, so i should be safe on that front for a time.

[Jay]

Well, when you've got him in only plate...
Plate gets destroyed by piercing weapons like a hot knife through butter.  Seriously.
Wearing plate over a layer of chainmail (to deter piercing) is quite common, both in DF and reality.

[(name here)]

Unless the armor page on the wiki is incorrect, plate>chain.

Although admittedly double layer armor might have provided partial protection, though i think i had at least some chain underlayer.

[The Doctor]

Yes, plate IS better then chain.


But both together is better then just one or the other.

[ElChad]

How do you put them on together?

[LordNagash]

Get them to wear chain then switch them to wearing plate, they'll just layer it on over the chain

[Tormy]

I decided to charge the elite crossbowman with my wrestler/swordman champions in mixed steel and iron plate first.

That was a bad idea. Ranged weapons are extremely overpowered. However combat should be more balanced [realistic] in the next version.

[Ryan1711]

Yes, they are certainly unbalanced...but not unrealistic.

In reality, a group of undisciplined (running in a loose cluster, no sort of defensive projectile-blocking formation), they would be absolutely pwned by a group of crossbowmen. Unfortunately, without any sort of formation (perhaps dwarves move in a line for huge projectile block bonus), it will continually be unbalanced. Some form of cavalry might work too, to get their faster. It's a shame the population is too low to make creating a lightly-armed fleet-footed rabble exclusively for the purpose of charging xbowmen to take massive casualties.

Still, fun though.

[(name here)]

In reality, crossbows did kinda pwn everything, including elite knights.

In Dwarf Fortress, however, elite people in plate and chain are more than a match for basic crossbowmen, but not local leaders on horseback. You'd likely take losses even charging unmounted ones who stood and fought instead of being all, "Parthian Shot pwns joo"

The unrealistic aspect of crossbows is really the fire rate like a submachinegun, not the owning people in plate.

[Marlowe]

Yes, they are certainly unbalanced...but not unrealistic.

In reality, a group of undisciplined (running in a loose cluster, no sort of defensive projectile-blocking formation), they would be absolutely pwned by a group of crossbowmen. Unfortunately, without any sort of formation (perhaps dwarves move in a line for huge projectile block bonus), it will continually be unbalanced. Some form of cavalry might work too, to get their faster. It's a shame the population is too low to make creating a lightly-armed fleet-footed rabble exclusively for the purpose of charging xbowmen to take massive casualties.

Still, fun though.

Somebody look up "shield-wall" or "phalanx".

[Porpoisepower]

Actually a good set of steel armor can stop a bullet.  They used to shoot armor, and the armor that survived was left only with a dent.  The dent was refered to as a proof mark.

I've seen chainmail get absolutely chunked by arrows.

[(name here)]

The crossbow killed kings on the battlefield. Presumably, said king had top-grade steel plate.

[Erom]

The problem with the DF crossbow isn't the penetrating power - right now it sometimes penetrates and sometimes doesn't, which matches RL pretty nicely. The problem with the DF crossbow (and indeed all ranged weapons) is the fire rate- THAT's what makes them imbalanced. A group of armored troops charging ranged troops should take a volley or two and should take losses from that. Right now, however, they take dozens of shots from each enemy.

[TettyNullus]

In reality, crossbows did kinda pwn everything, including elite knights.

In Dwarf Fortress, however, elite people in plate and chain are more than a match for basic crossbowmen, but not local leaders on horseback. You'd likely take losses even charging unmounted ones who stood and fought instead of being all, "Parthian Shot pwns joo"

The unrealistic aspect of crossbows is really the fire rate like a submachinegun, not the owning people in plate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeating_crossbow Somewhat possible, stretching the imagination I'll grant, but it'd explain piss-poor accuracy and high rate at higher level (DF does runs in compressed time in fortress mode so yeah ) 

Actually a good set of steel armor can stop a bullet.  They used to shoot armor, and the armor that survived was left only with a dent.  The dent was refered to as a proof mark.

I've seen chainmail get absolutely chunked by arrows.

Lead bullets from muskets, yes, modern bullets, not so as much, it gets pretty cumbersome in weight above pistol for protection. And most chainmails, from my recalling, is indeed rather poor in protecting against piercing attacks since rings are easily forced apart.

I'm pretty sure DF don't take types of attacks in account when dealing with armor, but I might be wrong.

[Marlowe]

The crossbow killed kings on the battlefield. Presumably, said king had top-grade steel plate.

WHICH king? I'm not arguing with you, but I'd like names. Medieval Monarchs That Actually Died In Battle is not a huge list, and I can't think of ANY that were specifically killed by arrows.

P.S. Harold Godwinsson doesn't count. Nobody takes that story seriously anymore.