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Author Topic: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?  (Read 235684 times)

Footkerchief

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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #105 on: March 17, 2012, 08:32:57 am »

Correct.
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HammerDave

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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #106 on: May 17, 2012, 10:51:51 am »

I embarked on a map that has only tetrahydrite and galena, as far as I've seen.
I'm afraid I won't find iron.
So I want to mod in a reaction so I can turn microcline into iron bars at the smelter.

If I understand correctly I can change an existing smelter reaction in the save raws, to accomodate this, but I cannot add a new reaction, without regenning the world (because this would require a change to the entity raws as well), is that right?
The easiest way I've found to do this is to make some stone (microcline is a reasonable choice) into an ore of iron.  Then everything else works the same as normal.  If you'd rather not have gigatonnes of iron ore, make tetrahydrite give iron for a percentage instead of / in addition to silver.
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Sappho

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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #107 on: May 30, 2012, 12:29:22 pm »

Read through the whole thread and saw this question asked once but didn't see a definite answer, so I'm asking once more just to check: can anyone confirm if adding [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] requires a regen? Thanks a lot!

i2amroy

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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #108 on: July 06, 2012, 05:40:52 pm »

It doesn't require a regen. In general entity tokens don't require a regen (as in the game will crash if you don't), it's just that the items that the civilization has access to (traders, invaders, and embarks) are already set. So the only times you need to regen based on entity tokens is if the token would have had an effect during the worldgen process such as site or item tokens. Neither [INDIV_CONTROLLABLE] or [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] has an effect during world gen, so they don't require regen.
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Jay

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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #109 on: July 10, 2012, 04:52:49 pm »

It doesn't require a regen. In general entity tokens don't require a regen (as in the game will crash if you don't), it's just that the items that the civilization has access to (traders, invaders, and embarks) are already set. So the only times you need to regen based on entity tokens is if the token would have had an effect during the worldgen process such as site or item tokens. Neither [INDIV_CONTROLLABLE] or [CIV_CONTROLLABLE] has an effect during world gen, so they don't require regen.
While you're correct about the tag itself, that whole "in general" statement isn't really valid at all.
The only things that can cause the game to crash are duplicate objects (and even then, only when something crazy happens because of), and deleted objects.
Almost all of the entity tags have an effect during worldgen, and as such are immediately locked in. This is due to the way civilizations are set up, as I've attempted to detail in the spoiler.
Those two do not under any circumstances, and are fine to change with an existing world.
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i2amroy

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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #110 on: July 31, 2012, 01:01:25 pm »

Spoiler: Old Post (click to show/hide)

Edit: Further tests prove this false in most aspects. More details can be found here.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 09:32:57 pm by i2amroy »
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Torrasque666

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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #111 on: August 08, 2012, 05:27:25 pm »

Feel free to disregard this, but I just want to make sure that this would work. Adding/changing [NATURAL_SKILL] wouldn't require a regen as it doesn't create anything right?
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zilpin

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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #112 on: August 10, 2012, 11:58:27 am »

For example if you add [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCIMITAR:FORCED] to the dwarven entity after regen then it will perform only the "post world gen" functions, namely allowing your fortress to make scimitars, while not performing the "world gen" functions, such as allowing traders to bring scimitars.

I tried adding weapons and armour, by adding a COMMON then by adding a FORCED tag to the entity_default.txt within the save game raw.
It did not exhibit described behaviour.

In all experimentation I've done, changes to the entity files are ignored in existing save games with an embark.


... Adding/changing [NATURAL_SKILL] wouldn't require a regen as it doesn't create anything right?
Last time I tried this, it did not appear to work for existing creatures on an embark.
I suggest using !SCIENCE!
(when asking questions about raw tags, it's usually a good idea to say what kind of file its in, for disambiguation.)
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i2amroy

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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #113 on: August 31, 2012, 09:30:52 pm »

For example if you add [WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCIMITAR:FORCED] to the dwarven entity after regen then it will perform only the "post world gen" functions, namely allowing your fortress to make scimitars, while not performing the "world gen" functions, such as allowing traders to bring scimitars.
I tried adding weapons and armour, by adding a COMMON then by adding a FORCED tag to the entity_default.txt within the save game raw.
It did not exhibit described behaviour.

In all experimentation I've done, changes to the entity files are ignored in existing save games with an embark.
Interesting. Further experimentation has shown that yes, weapons and armor changes are disregarded. However it has proved that it is fully possible to enable the use of custom reactions by an entity (assuming they already exist in the game, so you aren't adding new objects, just [PERMITTED_REACTION:XXXX]) and it will enable them in a method similar to what I outlined, i.e. your fortress will be able to use the custom reactions to make things, and traders of your civilization will not bring them.

Feel free to disregard this, but I just want to make sure that this would work. Adding/changing [NATURAL_SKILL] wouldn't require a regen as it doesn't create anything right?
IIRC, it should have an effect on any future creatures that are created of that type (so children mostly) but will not have an effect on any creatures that currently exist (such as your current dwarves or historical migrants).
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martinuzz

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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #114 on: November 01, 2012, 10:01:40 am »

If I mod nether caps in my save raws, so that they spawn at cavern depth 2 instead of 3, will they start spawning? Or will they have missed the trigger that was set off to cause level 2 trees to start spawning, when I discovered the level 2 cavern?
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martinuzz

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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #115 on: November 02, 2012, 06:42:40 pm »

I suppose I found the answer myself. It seems tree growth is an exception to the modification made to a non-entity file rule mentionen in the OP.

I tried changing the spawn depth of nether caps to 2/3, and to 1/2, but neither caused them to spawn.
If I want nether caps spawning on level 2, I need to regen, or at the least, start a new map where not all caves have been discovered yet, despite it not being a change made to an entity file. Just the plants_standard.txt
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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #116 on: November 03, 2012, 12:18:04 am »

NOTICE: Some, such as biomes, are highly relevant during worldgen and may not entirely have the desired effect.

The cave levels are a subset of the biome code, to a large extent.

In this case, as I understand it, the growth algorithm picks from an index that is created only when it actually starts running for tiles in that particular cave level—when you discover it.
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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #117 on: February 18, 2013, 11:23:09 pm »

If I understand you correctly, if I remove all of the Permitted_Reaction lines related to clothing from all traders, generate a world, and then return the lines, my dwarves will still be able to make all of the nifty gear they use, but nobody will offer to import it?

Sounds nice...
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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #118 on: February 23, 2013, 11:10:47 pm »

If I understand you correctly, if I remove all of the Permitted_Reaction lines related to clothing from all traders, generate a world, and then return the lines, my dwarves will still be able to make all of the nifty gear they use, but nobody will offer to import it?

Sounds nice...

There are no PERMITTED_REACTION lines related to clothing.

Button

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Re: Common Question: When do I need to generate a new world?
« Reply #119 on: September 23, 2013, 04:30:22 pm »

Do you happen to know if ethics can be changed after a worldgen?

I want my dwarf bone crafts!  :D
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