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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 2045152 times)

Misterstone

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11820 on: February 03, 2010, 11:13:07 pm »

Oh no, please no SCA member weapon debates.  Go back to theoretical physics if you must, but not this.  *sob*
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11821 on: February 03, 2010, 11:47:40 pm »

SCA?

@Neonivek: I guess its just the fact that the release is getting closer and so people are getting anxious/excited about it.
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CobaltKobold

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11822 on: February 03, 2010, 11:51:12 pm »

smjjames: Society for Creative Anachronism
Misterstone: If you want to see worse, see the Very minor semantics suggestion (re. "plate mail") thread.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_star_(weapon)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flail_(weapon)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(club)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_hammer
Now there shouldn't be any more confusion :)
*clicks first link*
Quote
The term can also be used to describe a type of military flail. Rather than a steel ball on the end of a chain, however, it features a short iron bar covered in sharp spines.
.e I think my point is illustrated adequately.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 11:53:40 pm by CobaltKobold »
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Nivim

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11823 on: February 03, 2010, 11:57:36 pm »

can we, uh, please not get off topic about penetration depth.  Please?

 Off topic? Why? I want to know when or whether "penetration size" will be set extremely high or removed if there is nothing to keep the weapon from going all the way through and out the other side. Footkerchief might come up with a quote. If you refer to a conversation already in this thread...I don't recall it, so I'll search after this post.

Edit: It appears there was conversation on the matter two months ago.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 12:00:53 am by Nivm »
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11824 on: February 04, 2010, 12:25:18 am »

can we, uh, please not get off topic about penetration depth.  Please?

 Off topic? Why?

I think he was trying to preempt the obvious innuendo.

Footkerchief might come up with a quote. If you refer to a conversation already in this thread...I don't recall it, so I'll search after this post.

Edit: It appears there was conversation on the matter two months ago.

Yeah, if you meant this post, I was speculating along these same lines when the weapon raws were first posted.  Never got confirmation though, so I asked directly.

Oh no, please no SCA member weapon debates.  Go back to theoretical physics if you must, but not this.  *sob*
Misterstone: If you want to see worse, see the Very minor semantics suggestion (re. "plate mail") thread.

Or the flail/mace/morningstar discussion we already had in this thread.  We covered most of what there is to be said, I think.
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11825 on: February 04, 2010, 12:42:59 am »

I'd think that to be totally accurate, there should be two Penetration limits: One at the crosspiece, and one at the shoulder. And they should both be soft limits. A legendary Goblin-Stabber should be able to stab a goblin so hard that the ornamentation on his crossguard is leaving marks. A legendary+5 Superdwarvenly strong dwarf should be able to stab so deep his hand comes out the other side.

Not that this is in any way necessary.
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Dakk

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11826 on: February 04, 2010, 12:46:43 am »

I'd think that to be totally accurate, there should be two Penetration limits: One at the crosspiece, and one at the shoulder. And they should both be soft limits. A legendary Goblin-Stabber should be able to stab a goblin so hard that the ornamentation on his crossguard is leaving marks. A legendary+5 Superdwarvenly strong dwarf should be able to stab so deep his hand comes out the other side.

Not that this is in any way necessary.

Yes it is, it soooo is.
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CobaltKobold

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11827 on: February 04, 2010, 12:52:27 am »

Or the flail/mace/morningstar discussion we already had in this thread.  We covered most of what there is to be said, I think.
Bay12 corollary to Godwin's Law:
As the Future of the Fortress thread length increases, the probability of a topic's (re)appearance approaches 1.
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Shoku

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11828 on: February 04, 2010, 02:55:42 am »


Or maybe what they thought was a werewolf was actually the dreaded werecarp. Half-man, half-wolf *and* half-carp. So dreaded that it adds up to 150% of pure terror.
I'm picturing a creature that looks like a werewolf but puts it's back to you except that it's back is one of those things from Innsmouth. Viewed from above you'd see the split somewhere around the chest with both upper bodies leaning "forward."

Following up on the above: Does penetration depth = (penetration size / contact area)?  If so, why does a morningstar (500/10) penetrate more deeply than a stab from a short sword (2000/50)?
Well for one it would appear the morning star swings twice as fast.

I don't know... honestly it is like the site has been sucked dry of all creativity and imagination lately.
Is it that people are less creative or that you're just seeing how repetitive people get?

can we, uh, please not get off topic about penetration depth.  Please?

 Off topic? Why? I want to know when or whether "penetration size" will be set extremely high or removed if there is nothing to keep the weapon from going all the way through and out the other side. Footkerchief might come up with a quote. If you refer to a conversation already in this thread...I don't recall it, so I'll search after this post.

Edit: It appears there was conversation on the matter two months ago.
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 03:02:54 am by Shoku »
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Mipe

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11829 on: February 04, 2010, 04:42:26 am »

Mipe cancels task: Innuendo Overload.
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James.Denholm

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11830 on: February 04, 2010, 04:47:55 am »

I'd think that to be totally accurate, there should be two Penetration limits: One at the crosspiece, and one at the shoulder. And they should both be soft limits. A legendary Goblin-Stabber should be able to stab a goblin so hard that the ornamentation on his crossguard is leaving marks. A legendary+5 Superdwarvenly strong dwarf should be able to stab so deep his hand comes out the other side.

Not that this is in any way necessary.

Yes it is, it soooo is.


Urist McWrestler is content. He cleaned himself of gore recently. He killed a goblin recently. He ripped out a goblin's heart with his bare hands recently. He punched a goblin so hard his hand went through his entire body recently. He had a pretty decent drink lately.

Toady, what is, in your vision, the limit to the possible "gore" of the game, especialy in Fortress Mode? I mean, I know that someone said something about strangling a creature with his own intestines way back when, but how far beyond that does the sick minds of your brother and yourself the vision of the game go?
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11831 on: February 04, 2010, 07:33:19 am »

Quote from: Mechanoid
Are the objects like powders corrected, or the raws for reactions and custom workshops advanced enough, so that we can produce arbitrary container-needing objects at a building, and then have that product placed into the correct container?
IE: A custom "Free booze" reaction produces booze for free, and instead of dropping the liquid onto the floor, it generates the liquid in the appropriate container; also if such a container was also a product.

On a semi-related but insignificant note, presumably milking creatures is still terribly broken?

Here's the plaster one, which has a container thingy and powder as well.  You can see the goofy "BAG" tag, which might not even survive to this release, but you can put stuff in whatever...  maybe even stuff that can't normally contain things, for all I know.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Milk is still dirt as far as I remember.  The eating-the-maggot thing seems like something that should be fixed, but I really don't recall fixing it.

Quote from: dnabios
I didn't see the Philosopher...did they get cut as well?

I kind of liked them...they added a touch of class and (I liked to imagine) an important cultural element.

Yeah, much like the old cults, it didn't really fit the format any more, and but it needs to come back in true glory at a later time.

Quote from: SirPenguin
I also don't see "Priest", which is weird. Could have sworn we were getting those dudes again, even if they didn't do anything special., though maybe I just misunderstood

And what do you mean about the Hammerer being busted? That's just a temporary thing, right?

The religious nobles are created as religions are created during world gen.  There aren't any raw controllers for that at this point (aside from having religions not exist for a given entity).  Yeah, hopefully the hammerer being busted is a temporary thing.  I need to get item information working so that they actually use hammers and stuff.

Quote from: Footkerchief
Quote from: diefortheswarm
Question about adamantine weapons.

If you wanted to make an adamantine hammer,  you could make a hollow adamantine shell and fill it with molten lead.  This would be a very effective weapon!  Will we be able to do anything like this in the foreseeable future?
I could have sworn this exact idea came up before, but I couldn't find much.  Anyway, it basically depends on whether/when Toady implements a system for multi-component or multi-material items. <quote about multi-material items>

Yeah, I remember it coming up before as well, at least as somebody's offhand remark, and yeah, we need some more backing in the code but it's definitely something that dwarves would want to do, assuming they don't have some weird ethics regarding mixing adamantine with stuff.  I think at some point there was a rule against improving adamantine items or improving with adamantine, but that might be long gone.

Quote from: Heph
Some Combat questions. If i drive a Spear right throught the upper leg of a Goblin so the spear is stuck in the ground and the goblins leg would this imobelize said goblin? could the goblin remove the Spear by itself? If i hit with said action the goblins nerves will he only loose the fealing in his upper leg or in the entire leg? And would the goblin get unconscious from the pain even if hes full with the Gobs equivalent of adrenalin?

You can't stick in the ground at this point.  Nerves currently affect all child parts -- that is both accurate and inaccurate, depending on the nerve I guess.  There isn't anything like adrenalin right now unless I threw in something weird with the max pain modifiers like in the original drag slay, which I don't think I have at this point.

Quote
Quote from: Heph
hmmm with the material rewrite i guess artifact weapons (and possible armor?) are nerved down or do they get some magical, weight, shearpoint, yield modifiers? Also what about the elven wood-weapons? Do the elves now manipulate the materials in some faschion?
Quote from: Calenth
Do we know how artifact weapons and armor, specifically artifact weapons and armor made with strange materials, will interact with the materials system? Will an artifact bone spear be able to pierce normal steel plate, or will it be largely ineffectual? Will artifact weapons and armor acquire item damage? Would an artifact gold hammer get bent or broken when I bashed it on someone's adamantium helmet?
Quote from: Footkerchief
For combat purposes, artifacts are just unusually high quality:<quotes>

Yeah, the current situation is:

Value*10.
Cannot be owned (can be equipped, you might have to do it explicitly though).
Armor deflection roll has *3 roll modifier instead of the masterwork's *2.
Same for melee attack and archery rolls.
It looks like the artifact edges are the maximum edge for the material, which is also what a masterwork gets, so beyond a masterwork you'd just be getting the hit roll modifier.
Things like artifact bone spears will likely be crap against steel, yeah.  We don't have actual magical artifacts yet, and that's what would be required.

Quote from: Khym Chanur
Will caravan merchants and caravan guards be controllable in the entity raws?  Specifically:

1) Can the armor and weapons of the guards be controlled?  How skilled they are?

2) What about the ratio of guards to merchants?

3) Could the merchants be made to defend themselves without having a guard?

And while on the subject, could the trade liaisons be made defend themselves (hopefully while carrying armor and weapons)?

Nothing at all here.

Quote from: Genoraven
Would it be to much of a request to have Chainmaille jewelry implemented at some point?

At some point?  Nah, not a problem, dwarves might like that kind of thing.  Not sure when I'll get to making jewelry more intense in general, though.

Quote from: Deon
Does it mean that it will be possible to sort ammo stacks and to combine separate arrows and to assign it to a specific "noble"?! Wow...
So we could make an ammo sorter job:
[POSITION:AMMO_SORTER]
  [NUMBER:50]
  [RESPONSIBILITY:SORT_AMMUNITION]
  [APPOINTED_BY:EXPEDITION_LEADER]
  [APPOINTED_BY:MAYOR]

?
I hope it's not a placeholder and actual ammo sorting mechanics are in, right?

No, restacking is not in.  This is for assigning ammunition to squads and hunters.

Quote from: smjjames
Okay, just a wierd thought out of nowhere, would changing the speed of your dwarves also change the metabolism rate? Like if you set your dwarves to a slower speed, their metabolisms would be similar to reptiles, if you set them to a high speed, like speed 0, would their metabolisms go into warp factor 10 and be like a hummingbirds, which is on the extreme end for warm blooded metabolisms.

The speed and health updates are independent, so speed won't have an effect on things like hunger, thirst, bleeding, poison, etc.

Quote from: darkflagrance
Will there be immigrant surgeons?

and

If injuries are rare at my fort, is it possible for my expert surgeon's skill to decay to the point that my next few injured dwarves are screwed?

Yeah, they are like any other job in that respect.

Skill decay shouldn't be a huge problem there, but it'll be fun to see if that's really true.

Quote from: Qloos
In Arena Mode when placing a creature can you choose it's size?  So you can place slightly larger horses to battle regular sized horses etc.

Can you designate an items quality in arena mode/make it of artifact quality?

At this point you can't do any of that.  When people get a chance to mess around with it, we'll see what people would think are the most useful additions.

Quote from: Chthonic
Are dwarves with animal care enabled going to be able to splint wardogs' broken legs and so forth, and in general make veterinary care functional?

It's one of those things that is sitting on the put-off pile and I'm not sure what's going to happen.

Quote
Quote from: Dwarfu
What will happen to a spouse that becomes a consort but already holds another position?  Will the previous position simply be given up?
Quote from: Retro
Toady, do spouses of position-holders (ie. the king/queen) require the same things as the position-holder, or do they just share and not need anything all to themself?

There was a spouse downgrade for the next version which'll have to be dealt with at some point.  It's just a name now, so they can hold other positions without an issue.

Quote from: madjoe5
For the things that are red right now: will they be worked on soon/have priority over other dev_next things? Like, will they be in the next release (not the one coming now, but the one after that). I really want to see the things here, particularly diseases and formations.

We haven't decided.  Currently, they are like any other dev item, off in distant limbo.  I'd also like to do these things.  Items like formations are almost necessary before improved sieges, since the addition of formations can really affect how the AI there turns out.

Quote
Quote from: Randall Octagonapus
The raws for the baron, count, and duke all say "succesion_by_heir" does that mean that their children will actually replace them if they die?
Quote from: smjjames
In addition to what Randall said, will the reigning monarch pass on the crown to an appointed heir (It seems to have a tendency to be the eldest), either offsite or onsite if they die for whatever reason?

It's a work in progress.  Right now it's a world gen thing and dev_next has the in-play implementation.

Quote from: smjjames
In those noble position raws, there is a tag called [DUTY_BOUND], what does that mean?

They can't be drafted away for adventure mode.

Quote from: smjjames
Also, you have the outpost liason and the diplomat as having the ability to do mandates and have room requirements (its the same as mayor I think), does this mean we will have to set up some housing for the liason and/or diplomat as well or is that required to make the position work?

Nope.  It's just an unrealized civ-level thing.

Quote from: smjjames
Edit: Oh yea, I see you still have [swims_learned] for the Magmamen, with that tag, they are stuck wherever they happen to land in the magma pipe and so are rendered harmless unless you tap into the pipe at their level. So, are they actually going to be able to swim in order to be a threat?

Yeah, that should be changed.

Quote from: Aquillion
Out of curiosity, has the issue described in this link -- the lag on the stocks menu when selecting a category with a huge number of objects -- been addressed in the latest version?

It's still busted.  I can clean it up before next time.

Quote from: Heph
Speaking of unicorns what are the physical properties of theyr horn? Is it in some way extra pointy/sharp? What odd Monster-materials can we exspect?

It's going to be sort of lackluster at this point.  There are lots of critters, and lots of materials that feel kind of magical have been left alone.  There will be a few things.

Quote from: Reese
Toady, are the stats fro the new combat system war hammers based on a realistic war hammer design with a small head, or on the stereotypical fantasy war hammer design with the oversized, maul-like head?

I had a similar picture to the realistic ones that were posted in mind, and we already have a maul.  The size numbers for items probably make the least sense out of all the size numbers, but I chose something fairly small.

Quote from: Heph
The question is if there is any tag that tells a tissue-Material to let stuff pass through without harm.

A material is treated as something that is supposed to be there, so something like a gas will still be knocked off with swings.  However, if I remember, if you don't set a material, you'll get the effect that you want.  I don't remember if that gives you an error log message though, so there should probably be an official-official way of doing this later on.

Quote from: Im_Sparks
Will it be, at any point possible to create a Geth-like race? IE: Founding a civ deep down, and creating replicating organic machines to wage war with the surface?

I didn't know what this means, so I looked it up.  Weird that I didn't remember, since I played that game, but it's a little advanced.  There will be more stuff over time, but certain stuff won't ever make it.  I guess custom workshops just need a few more commands for mods to make this more possible or fakeable though.

Quote from: yougiedeggs
Is it just in Dwarf Mode, or will AI in adventure mode grow attachments to their weapons, and maybe try to pick them back up when lost?

They grow attachments, but it doesn't manifest itself in any meaningful way at this point.

Quote from: Heph
can NPC form a link to other stuff they own? And what will it do if you try to trade this thing away. Like say buying a beloved family treasure from a guy because otherwise he would starve to death. This things wouldnt even be so detailed then the weapons to get some fluff.

You can't trade owned items in general if I remember.  Military equipment isn't owned though, so that stuff can be traded.  I don't think they care at this point.  There are a lot of cases like that.  One of the things I promised to do for somebody at some point was dealing with some of this.  I'm not sure where that split will be for this release.

Quote from: Dr. Hieronymous Alloy
Traditionally, dragon's blood is acidic, and would etch or dissolve whatever it comes into contact with. Tons of stories of swords dissolving away after stabbing dragons. If so, it would be easy for a merchant to test it: dip something metal into the blood and see if it dissolves.

Toady, in upcoming versions, will we see acidic dragon's blood? Would it damage attackers or those who get spattered with it, or damage the weapons of those who pierce the dragon's hide?

There are various dragons and various traditions.  If/when dragons start getting a little bit of the random treatment, things like this might happen.  I'm not sure how it'll turn out -- I'm currently thinking that dragons are a good way to test a half-random creature, one that fits a general theme specified in the raws but is allowed to spread out from that.  Insanely strong acids are required for the setting and will make it in at some point.

Quote from: smjjames
Just out of curiosity, could we see the raws for Firemen? because I wonder how you handled those.

Here they are.  I've included the flame templates as well.  It's kind of a crappy placeholder, but fire is a weird thing.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote from: RandomNumberGenerator
Does that mean I can add in specific reactions to make things like "Longland Bread" "Cat Meat Pudding" "Wild Strawberry Pie" "Whip Vine Cake" and "Dwarven Pizza" instead of having generic Dwarven Syrup meals made out of minced dwarven syrup, minced dwarven syrup, minced dwarven syrup and minced dwarven syrup?

For example, the cake could specifically use flour(dwarven, longland or whip vine, doesn't matter) milk(once again, any kind), sugar(I think there is only Dwarven) and Eggs(new creature that produced them, perhaps?) rather than accepting any three ingredients. And the cake would be worth much more than generic food, since it's harder to make.

I don't think specifying food item types works, since food types are very weird.  You can fudge to some degree.  You could make a MEAT object for instance out of any material, I think, and then you could use the MEAT_NAME tag there to make it called whatever you want.  If the few quirks that arise out of that (like it being grouped with meat and not satisying the preferences of all the ingredients) aren't show-stoppers for you, then you can probably get something going.  It wouldn't track all of the source materials though.

Quote from: Untelligent
Can a creature be given more than one breath attack? If not two material breath attacks, then what about one material breath and firebreath?

Yeah, you can add as many material breath attacks as you like.  They will use them at random.

Quote from: Footkerchief
Does penetration depth = (penetration size / contact area)?  If so, why does a morningstar (500/10) penetrate more deeply than a stab from a short sword (2000/50)?

Those numbers are the most nebulous, but it doesn't divide like that.  Just take the penetration number itself, relative to other items, and pretend the numbers themselves have a reasonable absolute scale.  I'm still not sure what should be done here.  Anyway, they might end up changing to something like an mm scale before the release, or they might stay the same.

Quote from: James.Denholm
Toady, what is, in your vision, the limit to the possible "gore" of the game, especialy in Fortress Mode? I mean, I know that someone said something about strangling a creature with his own intestines way back when, but how far beyond that does the sick minds of your brother and yourself the vision of the game go?

Beyond strangling a creature with its own intestines?  What that means is really going to depend on who you are talking to, and soliciting more specific examples might send this thread all to hell.  There's a lot of Assyrian-style stuff in world gen that might get realized during actual play, but there are also a lot of things that are not going in.
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Shoku

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11832 on: February 04, 2010, 08:19:01 am »

BAWW no devlog upda-
Ooooooh.
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11833 on: February 04, 2010, 08:20:44 am »

There'll be a little dev log too, but I'm still working since I forgot to do my laundry.  Up another 40 minutes or so.
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Orkel

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11834 on: February 04, 2010, 08:40:43 am »

Ohh a megapost. Nice.

By the way, how much are the server costs each month for running this site and forum?
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Dwarf Fortress: The game in which people place abducted children in a furnace to see what happens.
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