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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3510862 times)

Dohon

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3195 on: July 23, 2009, 05:38:39 am »

And Now For Something Completely Different! ... not really ...

I noticed the "Re-establish Combat Text" point and searched this thread a bit. As far as I can gather, Toady wants to make the Fortress Battles more detailed. Can we exspect Adventure style reports? In Real-time? Would be very nice to see those, since it is hard for RPing to pause the game every few seconds just to make sure you can accurately describe a battle.

Not the hottest feature for some, but I am very looking forward to seeing those reports in the next version.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3196 on: July 23, 2009, 06:20:44 am »

I noticed the "Re-establish Combat Text" point and searched this thread a bit. As far as I can gather, Toady wants to make the Fortress Battles more detailed. Can we exspect Adventure style reports? In Real-time? Would be very nice to see those, since it is hard for RPing to pause the game every few seconds just to make sure you can accurately describe a battle.

Yes to both, and some other stuff besides.  Here's some dev log excerpts that summarize the new system:

Quote
02/17/2009: I've been looking over the announcement situation in general, and I think I'll be able to do dwarf mode combat reports as well as put in some announcement zooming/filtering/etc. without much trouble, though there will likely be some restrictions at first (in that I might not update all 500+ announcement types with individual tags at this time). I've put in some of the infrastructure for that, and I've also gotten started on the combat text.

02/18/2009: I've updated the 40 or so peripheral combat messages to the new system and set up the information that is sent in to main strike message creator.

Combat messages in dwarf mode will default to notices -- this means that they aren't displayed at the bottom, but instead give you a little letter notice on the left bar of the screen according to the type of combat message (combat/sparring/hunting). You'll then be able to view the stored combat messages, separated into combat/hunting/sparring lists for each dwarf.

Remaining bits are the strike message's actual text, setting up announcement options by type (appears in a pause box? pauses-recenters? logged with the notices or in the main queue? etc.), setting up the notice screen, and updating the main announcement screen. For any updated announcement that can possibly have associated coordinates, you'll be able to recenter the view from the main announcement screen and from the notices. I won't be updating many of the announcements this time around, but I'll try to catch the ones that I've heard the most about (mineral popups, job cancellations, death announcements, etc.). Announcements that I don't hit will work as usual.

02/21/2009: The combat/hunting/sparring reports work. You can view adv mode style messages by creature and category (comb/hunt/spar) now and all of the announcements have associated dates. Those that have associated locations are zoomable from the announcement/report screens.
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Spey

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3197 on: July 23, 2009, 07:20:05 am »

Too bad you only get water when you're in jail though.

I put a one tile booze stockpile in each of my jail "Cells". That way dwarves arent too pissed about being thrown in there. :P

I could never get this to work properly, the 1 tile stockpile would have an empty barrel placed on it, but never actually any booze.
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3198 on: July 23, 2009, 07:43:18 am »

Did you set it to reserve barrels or something?
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mattmoss

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3199 on: July 23, 2009, 10:57:08 am »

At least with the bug, I can now build some up/down airways. Urist has been eating too many plump helmets, and the fortress air down below is worse than dead goblin miasma.

EDIT: Cripes and double apologies. I just realize I posted this completely in the wrong thread. Well then. Back to your elf conservation conversation.

Up and down airways?
I am interested.

If you look at the graphic menu glitch I posted on the previous page, you'll see the "st" in "stairways" has been obliterated, so it reads like "up/down airways" instead of "up/down stairways".
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Dohon

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3200 on: July 24, 2009, 05:33:53 am »


...

Yes to both, and some other stuff besides.  Here's some dev log excerpts that summarize the new system:

...


Thanks for that! I hadn't thought about checking the RSS feed. Thanks!
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3201 on: July 25, 2009, 04:20:56 am »

Quote from: Christes
Are the statues of dwarves etc actually depictions of historical figures a la engravings or are they just generic?  Also, could appropriate civ/group symbols be made into statues?  Are idols and the like touched as well?

Yeah, it's the same as engravings, although the proportions of what is selected are different.  Yeah, I think they are called figurines now and they have the same properties as the statues, so your "crafts" jobs will spit them out sometimes.

Quote from: TheDJ17
Is there going to be an option to have the dwarf make any sort of statue he wants or do we have to be spesific now?

It works the same way as it does in the currently released version.

Quote from: Warlord255
Will statues have symbols assosciated with them based on what they represent? I.E. "d" for dog statues?

It doesn't work that way now, but it wouldn't be that difficult to add an option if I find time.

Quote from: Battlecat
Once the statues are built are we going be able to query them like engravings to find out what the statue is?

Yeah, it'll give you the same information in the item description as you get for engravings, if there's any historical tie-ins, etc.  Statues of specific dwarves get the dwarf's name right in the item name.

Quote
Quote from: Granite26
I'm curious whether the symbolism code got copied over from engravings.  Will dwarves know what they are looking at?
Quote from: jpwrunyan
If I see tetrahedrite statue of mule how many happy thought do I get?

There isn't any symbolism code for engravings.  They just look at the material and quality.  For items in the currently released version they look at material, quality, overall type, and shape/material/quality/color of improvements/thread, the race that made the object, and maybe a few other things, but not the creature type etc. of individual improvements.  They should look at those too, of course, but I haven't done it yet.  I may or may not do it this time, depending on the time.

Quote from: Mephansteras
Do soldiers still carry provisions? I assume that'll let them stay out much longer. Relatedly, is there a specific order that lets them leave there post to resupply but then sends them back? This also applies to archers and bolts.

That's still in flux, so I'm not sure how it's going to turn out yet.  They are currently pretty eager to change out their equipment, even if it reduces staffing, since they have to grab their equipment when they are placed on duty anyway, but I haven't finished ammunition handling yet, so it might be done differently.

Quote from: Mephansteras
Are there any plans to allow haulers to bring provisions (food, booze, bolts, etc) out to soldiers on station?

None in particular.  It's happened in a few reward stories, but nothing that ever made it into dev, I think.  It's a reasonable thing.  It would be better if somebody could come out with a whole basket of food or something.

Quote from: AbuDhabi
While the new features are awesome, what I'd really like to see would be a working population cap and the ability to cap pets. Any chance of getting those in the upcoming release?

I have a pop cap save or two to check as part of the last bit of things to look at, though there's a lot of stuff in that list now so I can't guarantee I'm going to get to everything.  I've never been able to reproduce the pop cap issue myself.  The pet cap hasn't been changed as far as I can remember.

Quote from: ArkDelgato
Will migrants ever ride caravans into the fort?

If your own initial caravan is ever woven into the game's overall structure in a more normal way, traveling groups will certainly have access to the same vehicles.  It might also happen anyway, but the vehicle rewrite would have to come first.

Quote from: Org
somewhere, Toady said something about duel-wielding. Does this mean:
1)Actually having two weapons in fort mode in hands
or
2)Like it is now, not using both at the same time

They should be assigned and grab two weapons, yeah, or as many weapons as you assign them and they have grasps.

Quote from: various
top 10 stuff

I know some of the relevant people saw this, but in case you missed it.

Quote from: Areyar
Maybe kids will also play with toys to train their dexterity/ smarts/ etc depending on toy and have a preference for a certain toy type?
On that topic: kid moods bug will be adressed this version?

Will dwarves be temporarily claiming or buying the instruments and such they desire/require for playing at a party?
Music at a meetingplace party, will give additional happythought (dep. on quality of music) layer?

Yeah, we've wanted kids to play with toys forever, but never found the time.  Still not sure we will, he he he, but certainly having a kid bring a toy to a party would be a start.  Kid mood bug?  The one about the professions or something?

I haven't planned out specifically how music will work.  I'm not guaranteed to even get to it, but I imagine they'll just be able to claim an instrument if there's one sitting around, as there's no point wallowing in the economy for now.  I put in some invisible skills for music a while ago, so the playing of the music would very likely have an impact on all of the party-goers.

Quote from: Mephansteras
Will the bug with intelligent captives/tamed creatures starving/dying of thirst be fixed for this release? Also, if you have tames intelligent creatures (like *-men) will they use equipment in the new version?

Do I even know about that bug?  I don't think I did anything in particular there in any case.

Tame intelligent creatures?  Do you mean a mod of some kind?

Quote from: Mephansteras
Now that we have better control over Soldiers/Fortress Guard and civilians, where does the Hammerer fit in? Part of the Guard? A Civilian?

The hammerer is an appointee of the baron/count/duke.  The hammerer is also the leader of the Royal Guard, who still don't do anything, though you can give them orders now.

Quote from: Puzzlemaker
If so, can I make two different emergency burrows for two different groups of civilians?  AKA everyone assigned to this burrow goes to this emergency area, everyone assigned to this one goes to a different one.

Not yet.  The current system is lacking, but I'm not sure what I'll get to.

Quote from: Puzzlemaker
Will size come into play more when it comes to damage?  AKA, a bolt has to travel through a lot more flesh to get to a dragons heart then a goblin?

The size has an impact, but I haven't gotten to the point where I can definitely say how extreme it'll be.  It's using all the same damage code between a spear thrust and an arrow strike once it actually gets to doing the damage, so if a spear is to be different for a dragon vs a goblin, there will be a pretty extreme difference with projectiles as well, yeah.  There are lots of variables though, and there are also some missing variables that I might need to add, once I get down to doing more numeric tests.

Quote from: Puzzlemaker
Will formations give any bonuses other then simply having your dwarves where you want them?  Will they allow you to make your dwarves "face" a certain direction for better combat bonuses?  Or are there other bonuses you have in mind?

The way facing works in the current version, anything that can stop you from being flanked would already be a good thing, though with the amount of hopping around in the current combat, we'll have to see how formations merge with that.  Perhaps it should just set the option adventurers have to stop them from hopping if the formation is to be kept tightly.  There are things I'd eventually like to do with polearms vs. charging and all that kind of thing, etc., but there aren't enough underlying mechanics yet in terms of charging.  For now, being able to stop from being surrounded and being able to have an immediate 3 to 1 advantage on lone critters that step up to a line and so on should be something, as well as being able to wheel around a bit to get even higher ratios.  I'm not really sure how it'll play out though, especially on the first pass.  I also haven't done any reading yet.
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NFossil

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3202 on: July 25, 2009, 06:55:58 am »

Great news about teaching! Does this mean the teaching of other skills would be easy to code?
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3203 on: July 25, 2009, 07:43:43 am »

Yea, I'm wondering about that too. For a moment I thought you meant striking demonstration as in a strike (you know, Higher Pay or no Work!, or something like that), but then realized you were talking about weapon practice.

On that note, are we going to have to make some sort of dummy in order for this to work? It can be as simple as a bag of rock/sand/whatever propped against a wall or something realistically elaborate.

I haven't seen anything about teaching in the upcoming items, although they might be in the development notes.

edit: Found what you were talking about: Framework for instructor-led training, with instructor and evaluation of pupils determining nature of sparring/routines
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 07:47:03 am by smjjames »
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Tenebrais

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3204 on: July 25, 2009, 08:34:50 am »

Will this instruction lark work for all skills, or just the military?
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IndonesiaWarMinister

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3205 on: July 25, 2009, 09:41:43 am »

Yeah, eh, ToadyOne, tamed (pet) intelligents (or atleast those who [CAN_TALK]) need food and water to survive.

The thing is, they don't have the AI to eat and drink.
I'd file a bug report, but I am a bit 'lacking' in my language skill :D
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LordZorintrhox

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3206 on: July 25, 2009, 09:53:29 am »

Heh, teaching sessions for any skill...

"Okay, you miserable short-beards, welcome to PUMP OPERATING 101.  What's that Urist?  What happened to the first 100 classes?

THEY ALL DIED."

I think it is pretty clear Toady is currently intending to use the teaching code for the military only, since it is in the Squads section.  But I doubt it would be terribly complicated to apply elsewhere.

Though we don't know how the teaching code works with the squad code, could be inseparable right now. ???
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Mephansteras

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3207 on: July 25, 2009, 11:15:09 am »


Quote from: Mephansteras
Will the bug with intelligent captives/tamed creatures starving/dying of thirst be fixed for this release? Also, if you have tames intelligent creatures (like *-men) will they use equipment in the new version?

Do I even know about that bug?  I don't think I did anything in particular there in any case.

Tame intelligent creatures?  Do you mean a mod of some kind?

First off, thanks for all the answers!

And to answer your question, it's a problem both with modded creatures (like tamable Tigermen that the elves can bring) as well as children born to captive invaders. So if a goblin gives birth after you've captured her, her children will be friendly and run around for a while, but eventually die of thirst because they don't have the AI to actually eat food or drink anything.

I'll see if I can get a save that has the bug in it. When I do I'll submit a bug report on it. (or if anyone else has one handy, that'd be good too).
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Dakk

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3208 on: July 25, 2009, 01:46:24 pm »

Yeah, eh, ToadyOne, tamed (pet) intelligents (or atleast those who [CAN_TALK]) need food and water to survive.

The thing is, they don't have the AI to eat and drink.
I'd file a bug report, but I am a bit 'lacking' in my language skill :D

It can't be a bug with vanilla since you aren't supposed to be able to tame any creatures with the [INTELLIGENT] tag. Silly person.

Now go back to your adult manga filled closet.
Aditionally, removing said tag could remove their need to be fed.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 01:52:23 pm by Dakk »
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Toady One

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #3209 on: July 25, 2009, 03:41:28 pm »

Quote
Quote from: NFossil
Does this mean the teaching of other skills would be easy to code?
Quote from: Tenebrais
Will this instruction lark work for all skills, or just the military?

It's set up to use any skill, but since it's not used for that yet, I didn't do a few things, like have them search for meeting rooms instead of a training barracks.  It would be fast to set something up once there's more of a need for it.  As it stands, people know how to do complicated tasks at zero-skill, so it's not pressing, but that will likely be changed down the road.

Quote from: smjjames
On that note, are we going to have to make some sort of dummy in order for this to work?

Nah, right now I'm holding off on dummies, since I don't know enough about what was actually used.  Demonstrations just occur standing in front of people, even for things where it makes little sense like wrestling.  I could make it more involved later, but it's not crucial.  The instructor can still spar with people to learn em faster, and there are also the individual drills, where you have your equipment but don't hit anybody with it.  Those might use dummies later on, but you can currently consider them doing training routines or practicing swings in the air, which are both legitimate enough.

When I get around to defining specific combat styles (not this release), the individual drills will be upgraded to practicing specific named strikes and more intricate routines most likely.  Another one of those things I'm looking forward to, especially if you can branch off and create your own when you're talented enough, much like breeding random critters in a wizard tower, he he he.  I guess you could create your own idiotic and ineffective style before you're talented, and it might be even worse than using no style at all.  That wouldn't stop you from charging people to learn, he he he.

Quote
feeding bug

Ah, I see.  So no, I didn't fix that, but I can note it down.  It's the kind of thing that's a bit involved, and could either be fixed earlier or at the time things like multi-racial forts go in (such as being able to let a human adventurer stay on for a while or having an inn or being forced to take care of displaced humans, that kind of thing).
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