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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 2094295 times)

Untelligent

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5895 on: October 21, 2009, 08:49:34 pm »

So my artifact Uranium warhammer isn't nearly as badass as I thought it was?
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The World Without Knifebear A much safer world indeed.
regardless, the slime shooter will be completed, come hell or high water, which are both entirely plausible setbacks at this point.

G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5896 on: October 21, 2009, 08:55:15 pm »

I don't know how your dwarves acquired the turn-of-the-20th-century technology necessary to get uranium, but sure, that would actually really suck. Goddamn that must be heavy.
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== Human Renovation: My Deus Ex mod/fan patch (v1.30, updated 5/31/2012) ==

diefortheswarm

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5897 on: October 21, 2009, 08:58:19 pm »

Dwarfs would probably be able to effectively use heavier weapons then other races.  Their weapon designs should reflect this.
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SirPenguin

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5898 on: October 21, 2009, 09:30:14 pm »

Ha ha, I've actually had to correct multiple times that I didn't say anything absolute about releasing by the end of the year.  It's a goal, but one that doesn't seem particularly easy to reach, even if I cut what I can cut.

Er, well, I really don't wish to make a big issue out of this, but this is the quote of your's a lot of people have in their heads

Quote
I'm still planning to get the game out by the end of the year, even if I have to cut features. Of course any feature cut is just going to be put off for a few weeks or something, it's not like I'm cutting features and getting it out of the door so I can go and work on some new game or whatever. So no worries there: if I say something's out it's only out for a little while. We're in pretty good shape here, I should be able to make the little deadline I've set for myself.

And you're right, it's not a "definite" answer, as you're not guaranteeing anything. But I think people are very much expecting a version by Christmas based on this comment and ones like it. I know it might not show up on this forum very often (for perhaps obvious reasons), but people elsewhere are getting pretty upset at the delay. Upset enough to question the project, Toady, and whether or not DF can even be sustained on this current model.

I dunno, I'm sure this isn't anything new you're hearing, but I feel it needs to be addressed. It seems every time your correct your old quote you get a little bit closer to outright saying "It's not coming out this year", and that's a hard fact for a lot of people to swallow

I'm a longtime member here and I'm sure I don't need to qualify that above with the typical "but I support the project no matter what", 'cause I do, but I think this conversation is important.
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Rockphed

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5899 on: October 21, 2009, 09:41:36 pm »

I don't expect a new version by Christmas, I expect a new version by my sisters' birthday, 4 days after Christmas.  Yes, I am being benevolent and giving Toady 4 extra days to satisfy my whims.

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Only vaguely. Made of the same substance and put to the same use, but a bit like comparing a castle and a doublewide trailer.

Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5900 on: October 21, 2009, 09:44:50 pm »

I'm a longtime member here and I'm sure I don't need to qualify that above with the typical "but I support the project no matter what", 'cause I do, but I think this conversation is important.

Are you expecting a substantially different conversation from the last time you had it?  At the end of the day, what possible answers are there besides "It'll be out when it's out" and "It won't be this bad again"?

Spoiler: long (click to show/hide)
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Outcast Orange

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5901 on: October 21, 2009, 09:48:07 pm »

I'm not sure weapon decorations should be included in damage at the moment,
since basically every piece of rock in my fortress larger than a rat's eye menaces with spikes of something.
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Aqizzar

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5902 on: October 21, 2009, 09:53:40 pm »

Do the decorative spikes count for damage from a weapon?

Not yet (I don't have a quote for that, but it sounds like item improvements have been left alone as much as possible for this release).  He's historically been positive about the idea though.

What the...  Holy crap you're good.  What, do you keep an indexed database of everything Toady's ever posted?
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SirPenguin

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5903 on: October 21, 2009, 10:02:13 pm »

I'm a longtime member here and I'm sure I don't need to qualify that above with the typical "but I support the project no matter what", 'cause I do, but I think this conversation is important.

Are you expecting a substantially different conversation from the last time you had it?  At the end of the day, what possible answers are there besides "It'll be out when it's out" and "It won't be this bad again"?

Spoiler: long (click to show/hide)

Yes, I am expecting a different conversation. Believe me, I hate to be a broken record as much as anyone. But it seems something or several somethings have changed between then and now. That post is dated from June. He mentions how the previous month was a "bad month" but seemed optimistic that he was well along his way. Then in August was the first DF Talk where he said he was pretty sure he could get it out by the end of the year. Now he's saying that he didn't gurrantee anything and that even releasing a cut version would be hard by the end of the year. That's a very different outlook and message then he was giving us back then
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5904 on: October 21, 2009, 10:11:12 pm »

Yes, things have changed -- time went by, work got done, and the outlook changed as new information became available.  Again, what are you expecting him to say?  He's already eaten a couple thousand words' worth of crow about how long it's taking.  I would understand if you were saying "Hurry up and release it already" because we are all ingrates who occasionally harbor that sentiment, but you want a conversation?

slightly edited in light of good advice below
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 10:17:42 pm by Footkerchief »
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Puzzlemaker

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5905 on: October 21, 2009, 10:13:57 pm »

Easy now children.
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The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.

Puzzlemaker

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5906 on: October 21, 2009, 10:15:04 pm »

So I am assuming that underground features can take place at those extra allocated Z-Levels, right?

Presumably it'll try to space out the underground "layers" among the available Z-levels.

I hope not... Or at least, I hope I have an option to just add more underground layers instead of spreading them out.
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The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.

SirPenguin

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5907 on: October 21, 2009, 10:31:08 pm »

Well what else can we do, as "consumers" here? We have a dev that's willing to talk with us which seems a lot more productive than simply making silly demands like that. I understand the point you're making, but it's better than waiting around twiddling my thumbs.

Here's the deal. Toady seems to be slowing down. The last time he's answered any FotF questions was close to 3 weeks ago. It took halfway through October to even green out some items on the dev list. Donations are only going to get slimmer as we get farther away. People are only going to get more frustrated and abandon the project as well, and not all of them are going to come back even when it's eventually released.

These things are important, and I'm wondering how Toady plans on dealing with those issues and others now and in the future.

Honestly, this story is VERY similar to what happened (and his happening) to Killing Floor, a game available on Steam. I'll spoiler tag it as it's not 100% relevant to the greater topic at hand.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

edit: I swear my posts are going through some sort of "hate filter" before people are reading them, as this is the second time in as many days that someone has thought I was getting worked up on this forum. People can have disagreements, discussions, whatever you want to call them, online (and in real life!) without being angry or upset. I don't think I or Footkerchief, even with his original post (which was 100% fine) are upset with one another or bickering. Yeah, we probably disagree or he thinks I'm being silly or whatever, but that's alright. People are allowed to disagree with each other, and I think we're all doing it in a calm, rational way!
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 10:35:55 pm by SirPenguin »
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5908 on: October 21, 2009, 10:48:04 pm »

Keep in mind, though, that not only is Toady now doing the DF Talk things (which he wasn't doing before!), which answer some questions, as well as that recent interview, he also just greened out nearly an entire section of the list that had previously been (almost?) ENTIRELY blank before. Also, one of the thing he recently worked (or has been) working on is the new HFS, which he decidedly isn't telling us anything about.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 10:50:04 pm by G-Flex »
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There are 2 types of people in the world: Those who understand hexadecimal, and those who don't.
Visit the #Bay12Games IRC channel on NewNet
== Human Renovation: My Deus Ex mod/fan patch (v1.30, updated 5/31/2012) ==

SirPenguin

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5909 on: October 21, 2009, 10:52:28 pm »

Indeed! And I don't mean to discount any of the strides he's already made. They've been huge and glorious. But, despite all of that, he's still saying (as recently as a few hours ago!) that...well...

Ha ha, I've actually had to correct multiple times that I didn't say anything absolute about releasing by the end of the year.  It's a goal, but one that doesn't seem particularly easy to reach, even if I cut what I can cut.

And that's what I am specifically referencing. Though I understand you're probably responding to my "Toady is slowing down" comment. Even still...I recently went through all of the dev posts and FotF posts this past year and compiled a list of the new stuff Toady is working on. I was amazed how frequent he used to update compared to these days
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