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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 2115863 times)

G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5910 on: October 21, 2009, 10:56:28 pm »

He probably updated more about things earlier because there was simply more to update about. Most of what he's currently working on, he's already mentioned in detail before, so it's not as necessary, especially since he spent a long period going through pretty much all the lists and starting them. Finishing them could easily take just as long, but with much, much less to say about any of them.
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== Human Renovation: My Deus Ex mod/fan patch (v1.30, updated 5/31/2012) ==

CobaltKobold

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5911 on: October 21, 2009, 11:45:33 pm »

It took halfway through October to even green out some items on the dev list.
Except it looks like when he did, that was 95% of the 'sites' category, and he'd also been working on Hidden Fun Stuff, which was planned but unlisted.

I remain optimistic
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5912 on: October 21, 2009, 11:50:53 pm »

Well what else can we do, as "consumers" here? We have a dev that's willing to talk with us which seems a lot more productive than simply making silly demands like that. I understand the point you're making, but it's better than waiting around twiddling my thumbs.
I agree with you in theory, but we've already had this conversation. In depth. So taking Toady's time away from the game is actually considerably less productive than twiddling your thumbs.
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Here's the deal. Toady seems to be slowing down.
um... not really? Have you been reading dev_now? Keep in mind that Toady is only one person, and cannot - at least theoretically - produce as fast as a full team, so your normal expectations may be inaccurate.
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The last time he's answered any FotF questions was close to 3 weeks ago.
Can't fault you here. I too, am saddened by the long wait on questions. I will pont out that it has little to do with your overall point, however.
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It took halfway through October to even green out some items on the dev list.
He greened out quite a few at once. Had it been only one item, your concern here could be merited, but he greened quite a bit of stuff. Even if it had been only a single thing, it's quite probable that dev_now would have record of why.
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Donations are only going to get slimmer as we get farther away.
In theory this is true, but in practice, not so much. Toady's monthly donations seem to be holding approximately steady. While they aren't holding steady at any particularly high number, Toady hasn't, to my knowledge, complained of financial troubles, so we can only assume it's enough.
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People are only going to get more frustrated and abandon the project as well, and not all of them are going to come back even when it's eventually released.
Again, while this is theoretically true, it is not actually what we see happening. We can probably attribute quite a bit of this to the strength of the community; modders allow for new content, and the only thing awesomer than your new megaproject is taking a picture of it with VisualFortress and showing everybody.
However, the main factor here is that Dwarf Fortress is a good game. There are games that, years or decades later, people will still love, and will occasionally take for another spin, simply because they are awesome. If a game is good, development becomes irrelevant. Dwarf Fortress, even as an alpha, is of that quality. We can only imagine how awesome the completed version will be.

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These things are important, and I'm wondering how Toady plans on dealing with those issues and others now and in the future.
I imagine he plans to keep doing the same thing as he has been; working on DF.

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Honestly, this story is VERY similar to what happened (and his happening) to Killing Floor, a game available on Steam. I'll spoiler tag it as it's not 100% relevant to the greater topic at hand.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's different, bro. The Dev team were not subsisting off of donations; they already got payed when you bought the game. They didn't post updates of what they were actually doing. It was a post-release game, rather than an alpha in which pretty much everything is a placeholder.
And most importantly, it was not nearly as good a game as DF. Dwarf Fortress may have a bit of a niche audience, but the niche loves it. Such is the nature of long-unsatisfied niches.

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edit: I swear my posts are going through some sort of "hate filter" before people are reading them, as this is the second time in as many days that someone has thought I was getting worked up on this forum. People can have disagreements, discussions, whatever you want to call them, online (and in real life!) without being angry or upset. I don't think I or Footkerchief, even with his original post (which was 100% fine) are upset with one another or bickering. Yeah, we probably disagree or he thinks I'm being silly or whatever, but that's alright. People are allowed to disagree with each other, and I think we're all doing it in a calm, rational way!
It's not because you're disagreeing, it's because you're being very negative without inducing any positivity. It happens to me too. Such is the danger of focusing on things you feel need attention. I was pretty negative about your post just now, but just setting stuff straight. So it goes.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 11:53:59 pm by Cruxador »
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SirPenguin

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5913 on: October 21, 2009, 11:58:15 pm »

So it goes indeed. Your post was definitely the most insightful and comprehensive, and I definitely appreciate it. Thanks for rebutting my points in such a way.

I still maintain, however, that despite the fact Toady does seem to be making more strides now than he was earlier in the month, he STILL posted that quote that prompted all of this tonight. He has a better idea than any of us how long this will take him, and he is saying that even a CUT version by the end of the year will be a hard goal to reach.
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5914 on: October 22, 2009, 12:09:06 am »

So it goes indeed. Your post was definitely the most insightful and comprehensive, and I definitely appreciate it. Thanks for rebutting my points in such a way.

I still maintain, however, that despite the fact Toady does seem to be making more strides now than he was earlier in the month, he STILL posted that quote that prompted all of this tonight. He has a better idea than any of us how long this will take him, and he is saying that even a CUT version by the end of the year will be a hard goal to reach.
I think a big part of that is merely that he doesn't want to make a promise he's not entirely sure he can keep. Though I realize it's fashionable among many modern game designers to do so, many people, Toady apparently included, don't like to break their promises. Thus, when he is not entirely certain (as, indeed, he cannot be) we get an estimate, rather than a promise. The fact that he many months ago he was less aware of how much work he had left seems insignificant to me.
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5915 on: October 22, 2009, 12:43:03 am »

So it goes indeed. Your post was definitely the most insightful and comprehensive, and I definitely appreciate it. Thanks for rebutting my points in such a way.

I still maintain, however, that despite the fact Toady does seem to be making more strides now than he was earlier in the month, he STILL posted that quote that prompted all of this tonight. He has a better idea than any of us how long this will take him, and he is saying that even a CUT version by the end of the year will be a hard goal to reach.

He could easily be referring to stuff that's already been cut, but I'm not sure.

Also, keep in mind that even if he cuts things now, it's not as if he can't add them in during the short term after this release. He definitely plans on releasing versions much, much more often after this one.
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== Human Renovation: My Deus Ex mod/fan patch (v1.30, updated 5/31/2012) ==

Mandaril

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5916 on: October 22, 2009, 12:56:46 am »

I'd rather wait and get a properly done update rather than where things were cut just to "get it on time".

Software development can be pretty tricky business and especially in big software it's sometimes hard to detect the "cause <--> effect" connection in problems. If software was real world, then it'd be something equivalent of hitting a nail with a hammer and having a building collapse on other side of town.

Don't worry people, sometimes ???-moments occur :)
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DG

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5917 on: October 22, 2009, 12:58:04 am »

SirP, it's likely that you're more sensitive than most to any apparent lack of fresh DF happenings because you're running a blog dedicated to DF news. I'm not being critical, just pointing it out in case you hadn't considered it. If I was keeping a blog on something, it'd be much easier if there was something new and exciting to write about everyday, I'm sure.

As it is, I'm not bothered by the idea that the new version might not be out by the end of the year, and I hope I'm not in the minority. It wouldn't worry me if he pushed it back to the year after (probably amongst the minority there) as long as he continues to keep us up to date as he has been doing. We've been spoiled for updates lately, we really have. You need to take a wider view on it and not be so aware of variations within periods of only weeks.
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Chronas

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5918 on: October 22, 2009, 01:11:50 am »

M'lord Penguin may i remind you that patience is a virtue?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Treat every stretch of uncertainty and emptiness as a mere moment of inactivity whilst waiting for the inevitable release.

After all, this is DWARF FORTRESS, the most understaffed and underpriced game ever made which has overly complex and intricately interesting gameplay which is only hindered by the fact that it is underestimated by the community at large and rarely understood by those who first attempt to play it. Don't worry if the gap between releases is longer than a bug's lifetime.
TLDR: stay calm and brace for EPIC!
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 01:14:20 am by Chronas »
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He he he.  Yeah, it almost looks done...  alas...  those who are in your teens, hold on until your twenties...  those in your twenties, your thirties...  others, cling to life as you are able...
It should be pretty fun though.

smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5919 on: October 22, 2009, 01:25:34 am »

What does TLDR (or tl;dr as I often see it around here) mean? I've seen it used often on these boards, but I don't get what it means.

Sorry for the sudden derail of sorts, heh.

Still, he was doing the HFS and the underground stuff, which may have taken more time.

Sooo, whats next? Finishing up the entities or something?

Edit: Oh yea, what is the cave diggers thing all about? I thought digging creatures weren't really implemented in this release?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 01:27:40 am by smjjames »
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5920 on: October 22, 2009, 01:30:07 am »

What does TLDR (or tl;dr as I often see it around here) mean? I've seen it used often on these boards, but I don't get what it means.

"Too long; didn't read". Used to reply to posts that were, well, too long for you to bother reading. Its meaning has expanded to "short version, if it's too long and you didn't read:" or some-such.
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== Human Renovation: My Deus Ex mod/fan patch (v1.30, updated 5/31/2012) ==

Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5921 on: October 22, 2009, 01:42:24 am »

Edit: Oh yea, what is the cave diggers thing all about? I thought digging creatures weren't really implemented in this release?

The key words for that item are "in world gen."  So no, you won't have creatures digging into your fortress yet.  Beyond that, I'm not sure what it's about.  I didn't know there was any current world gen cave digging, but maybe caves already get expanded when new inhabitants arrive.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 01:49:50 am by Footkerchief »
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Cruxador

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5922 on: October 22, 2009, 01:45:54 am »

What does TLDR (or tl;dr as I often see it around here) mean? I've seen it used often on these boards, but I don't get what it means.

"Too long; didn't read". Used to reply to posts that were, well, too long for you to bother reading. Its meaning has expanded to "short version, if it's too long and you didn't read:" or some-such.
Note that when at the end of a post, it's used to denote a quick summary; a version for people who did not read the full post because it was too long.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5923 on: October 22, 2009, 01:50:09 am »

"Too long; didn't read". Used to reply to posts that were, well, too long for you to bother reading. Its meaning has expanded to "short version, if it's too long and you didn't read:" or some-such.
Note that when at the end of a post, it's used to denote a quick summary; a version for people who did not read the full post because it was too long.

You almost got me.
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CobaltKobold

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #5924 on: October 22, 2009, 02:10:31 am »

Edit: Oh yea, what is the cave diggers thing all about? I thought digging creatures weren't really implemented in this release?

The key words for that item are "in world gen."  So no, you won't have creatures digging into your fortress yet.  Beyond that, I'm not sure what it's about.  I didn't know there was any current world gen cave digging, but maybe caves already get expanded when new inhabitants arrive.
Perhaps it refers to the way it creates caves.

"TLDR" is a blight against literacy and action, that's what it is.
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