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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3062035 times)

sproingie

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10905 on: January 23, 2010, 02:45:25 pm »

perhaps if ropes werent used in pathfinding calculations and dwarves wouldn't use them for normal movement, only if we specifically told them to use them.

That would be ideal but for the fact that we can't tell individual dorfs where to go, save for military ones.  Otherwise you're basically talking about keeping them "locked" which as we know doesn't help when it comes to pathfinding.

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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10906 on: January 23, 2010, 02:56:57 pm »

They'd function like an elevator then. Or a transporter, as it were. Station an away team a squad in an area, tell Urist McScotty to energize pull the lever. Poof, they're down there. Same process for movement up.

Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10907 on: January 23, 2010, 03:10:34 pm »

perhaps if ropes werent used in pathfinding calculations and dwarves wouldn't use them for normal movement, only if we specifically told them to use them.

That would be ideal but for the fact that we can't tell individual dorfs where to go, save for military ones.  Otherwise you're basically talking about keeping them "locked" which as we know doesn't help when it comes to pathfinding.



well, think with me, you build a rope in an open space next to a floor, then with (q) you go into it's (P)ermissions menu and select a dwarf or a few or any, then you (a)dd a new task and select climb (d)own, or something. it may be a little clumsy, but it's the dwarven way

smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10908 on: January 23, 2010, 03:15:52 pm »

perhaps if ropes werent used in pathfinding calculations and dwarves wouldn't use them for normal movement, only if we specifically told them to use them.

That would be ideal but for the fact that we can't tell individual dorfs where to go, save for military ones.  Otherwise you're basically talking about keeping them "locked" which as we know doesn't help when it comes to pathfinding.



well, think with me, you build a rope in an open space next to a floor, then with (q) you go into it's (P)ermissions menu and select a dwarf or a few or any, then you (a)dd a new task and select climb (d)own, or something. it may be a little clumsy, but it's the dwarven way

Okay, but then how are you going to select a dwarf or more than one and then make them go over if they aren't military? We don't have that kind of control.

That control setup would be fine in adventure mode and if you intend to use it like an airlock for military, that could work, but if you intend to use it in a high traffic area, it becomes extremely impratical.

AFAIK, even 'normal' movement requires pathfinding, so there is just no escaping the pathfinding issue.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 03:18:53 pm by smjjames »
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10909 on: January 23, 2010, 03:50:39 pm »

well, actually, it would work only with non military, as it would work like a workshop and create a task that any available permitted dwarf would rush to complete, i don't know if toady would have to rewrite much to allow military dwarves to use a workshop like building

smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10910 on: January 23, 2010, 03:53:33 pm »

Again, what if you want to use it in a high traffic area? Like maybe its the only access between two main areas.

Its this kind of situation and more that makes this so complex to implement.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 03:55:07 pm by smjjames »
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10911 on: January 23, 2010, 03:56:27 pm »

you build a staircase, if i was a dwarf and i was ordered to regulalrlly climb up and down a rope for several seasons, i'd be pissed off
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 04:02:42 pm by Askot Bokbondeler »
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10912 on: January 23, 2010, 04:00:19 pm »

Lol, well yea, I would too.

I was using that as a hypothetical example to illustrate my point. Even though it would be inefficent and cause lag because of the chokepoint.
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piecewise

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10913 on: January 23, 2010, 04:03:11 pm »

almost there, just rope/ladders and then the final clean up!

COME ON TOADY YOU CAN DO IT!

Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10914 on: January 23, 2010, 04:03:43 pm »

Lol, well yea, I would too.

I was using that as a hypothetical example to illustrate my point. Even though it would be inefficent and cause lag because of the chokepoint.

and cause lag cause animals would be trying to use it, and not be able to, like pet locked doors

you can set the task to repeat, and set the permissions to many dwarves, so you could transport several dwarves between two areas, but they wouldn't automatically use the rope and could starve down there if there was no food in the area, as they wouldng climb the rope unless you told them, but i think it may be the easyest way to do it without rewriting the whole pathfinding system
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 04:05:47 pm by Askot Bokbondeler »
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10915 on: January 23, 2010, 04:10:10 pm »

No I meant to say Placemat

But Placeholder could have been a better word. Mostly I meant a temporary solution for a problem that will be fixed at a later date.
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smjjames

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10916 on: January 23, 2010, 04:13:20 pm »

Since one of the reasons for the rope ladder is to be able to build downwards and get into an open space that you can't get to by other means (unless you want to do some drop pod thing) or have to take a long route around, it would work the way you described it.

It may be easy on paper (or forum), but I have no idea how easy it would be to code.

It also sounds like you're talking about something similar to the one-way ramp glitch, that might actually solve the pathing issue, except you can't get back up that way.

Given all the discussion about it, I'm sure Toady has some ideas in mind and he seems just about ready to pounce on it and work on it for a day or two.
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Outcast Orange

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10917 on: January 23, 2010, 04:51:25 pm »

I figure he will find some way to combine the staircase code with the door code,
 then have it be permanently tightly shut.
So like make a staircase/door that is always shut so animals can't go through it.
Then make it destroy the whole tile if anyone tries to break into it.

Would be a decent workaround.
So if an animal charges and "breaks" the "looked door",
 the rope would be destroyed.
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10918 on: January 23, 2010, 04:59:00 pm »

but then we'd have hundreds of dogs, cats, horses, and cows waiting at the rope for it to *open* and making pathfinding calculations with our processors on their free time

Martin

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #10919 on: January 23, 2010, 05:06:42 pm »

but then we'd have hundreds of dogs, cats, horses, and cows waiting at the rope for it to *open* and making pathfinding calculations with our processors on their free time

He could just fix the pet door pathing bug, you know.
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