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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items  (Read 3545878 times)

Earth Striker Lurin

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11025 on: January 24, 2010, 12:41:39 pm »

I think that the fluid dynamics is a much greater hog, and honestly just fixing that one issue would likely free a lot of FPS issues for most people, waterfalls on an embark can cause an immediate abandon and re-embark elsewhere, and they shouldn't.

Exactly!  I love maps with multiple rivers with lots of waterfalls They're really pretty and I want to play them :)
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Armok

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11026 on: January 24, 2010, 01:46:16 pm »

This is almost surreal... The New Version is a mysterious thing you read about not something that you might one day, even soon, get to actually play...
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crash2455

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11027 on: January 24, 2010, 02:02:53 pm »

Yeah, I just looked at the date of the first posts in here and thought Toady started a new thread.  I can't believe it's been more than a year since this thread started up.  Here's to having something by February.
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jarathor

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11028 on: January 24, 2010, 02:06:01 pm »

In response to the fps issue, I think I remember somebody who did a little experiment to see what caused the most lag on older forts - while fluids are the problem in your case, whoever did it (tried searching but I couldn't find it) found that the sheer amount of items (mainly stones) that the game has to keep track of has the largest effect on framerate if there aren't any large fluid projects going on. Maybe there could be some optimization in the way DF tracks items along with pathing and fluids, although not knowing anything about the way the game handles items, I'm not sure that that's even possible, it could free up some of the computing power for tracking the other issues.
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Totaku

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11029 on: January 24, 2010, 02:12:36 pm »

Well I see he went the simple route like some of us perdicted, so I guess that'll solve the "climbing down issue" for now.

Anyways, it's now "perdiction time" as I promised!

Last time I stated that the underground would likely be done anywhere between 23rd - 31st of January. And we got the report in on the 24th! So that's mean I landed this one pretty dead on. So now I shall cover the estimated time for the "finalzation"!

As of this point Toady seems to be conducting a list of what to focus on this will likely take up a day there. And he's also fixing to respond to our questions in green which he is a bit behind on due to the H1N1 senario. So most likely we may have a two day delay before he starts anything. But who knows, eitherway, I'm giving a two day extension on the final perdiction for this case....

Fixing the Cat Bug
This fix should be almost instant since what Toady stated sounded like he's not going to be doing too much heavy programming here so my bets our on he's going to just slap the [GRASP] tag on and call it a day. This may likely be the one thing that could be greened out while he's getting things ready for all the testing he has to do...

Estimated time 5-15 minutes

The Hydra Test
This should be to mainly see if the hydra dies properly and see if it leaves the apporpiate # of skulls. Mostly likely this process will involve some quick Arena and Fortress Mode testing to see if it's working right. How much work will be invovled to make the hydra work right is subject for debate but it should be long.
Estimated time 2-3 days

Some small compacting issues
This sounds like it associated with the files he's been working on and as he stated will likely take several days to cover it all.

Estimated time 3-5 days

Fixing some bug reports and interface issues
This one will cover some of the forum report along with changing up certain part of the interface that plays have suggested likely. This could also tie into "any remaining tests" that will be discussed later. Depending on what he plans to cover this should likely take a week, but it could be more depending on what he's planning to cover...

Estiamted time 1-2 weeks

Any Remaining Tests
This is the big one here, this will involved testing out all the game mode features to insure everything is running properly and we don't suffer any "game crashing bugs". Most likely every mode will be tested to see if all the features run properly and will likely be tested after everything else above is greened out. The time this process could be done will vary... It could be as quick as a week, but chances are it could be longer if he runs into a number of serious bugs.

Estimated time 1-3 weeks

The 40d## merge
The final component to the finalization. Barghn has worked on the features on this for a while and it's suppose to be entering it's final stage. There are two thing that have to be done for this...

1. Release 40d17 which will be vital for the testing to ensure the fixes have been done.
2. Merge the final version of 40d17 into the new DF once the process is complete.

To my view this sounds like this should be one of the high priority on Toady's list is to get the 40d17 ready. So if he plays his cards right 40d17 should be released soon (hopefully). Because with the amount of time that'll be put into the other work mentioned above, we can test it out to make sure it'll works.

This should then be merged just before the release since everything should be tested and fixed...

The only question is "when" will 40d17 come out?

Otherwise at this point I will assume that once tested the features shouldn't take long (give it a few days to place in properly.)

Estimated time 4-5 days (for merging - this of course all depend on when 40d17 is released, so time may vary)

Estimated date of release

If Toady plays his cards right, everything should come together smoothly in weeks to appoximately a month from this date. Otherwise, if major snags come along, it'll likely be up to dragged on into March but hopefully not much longer than that...

Estimated time when the release could come?
February 16th - March 14th

My Perdiction Week of Release
February 23rd -March 2nd

Perdition day of Release
Febuary 27th

This is my perdiction, and hopefully it'll be accurate to the week at least.
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G-Flex

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11030 on: January 24, 2010, 02:15:42 pm »

Perdition day of Release
Febuary 27th

Frankly, I hope Toady doesn't release perdition upon any of us, at any time.
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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11031 on: January 24, 2010, 02:17:44 pm »

That's fine, there are ways the game could be better, however, and I think it is best he be made aware of them. Especially since his design method tends to point towards trying to give the community what things they feel are important.
Toady is doing this all by himself the more he adds to DF without fixing other issues (such as the optimizations of various subsystems) the game will begin to grow to be blown out of proportion. Remember, Toady works hard but he does it by himself. The more that is added the longer each consecutive update takes to be released, and when this continues going on, the optimization will never be done, and the interest in the game will plummet when people begin to notice that the game is virtually unplayable after a short period of time because the framerate drops to sub-10fps almost immediately.

Optimization is hugely needed here.

The primary way he's made aware of them is Eternal Suggestion Voting, on which "Improved Pathfinder" stands at #4.  Toady's going to work through the top 10 ESV items after this release, and since he's going to also "think about the underlying problems/desires that many players have associated to those suggestions," it's likely that he'll end up working on other longstanding performance issues at that time.

So yes, optimizations are coming.  We have about as firm a timeline as one could ask for on this issue.
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Whiskey mcgin

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11032 on: January 24, 2010, 02:20:14 pm »

Argh..I cant wait, been waiting for so long, and soon the wait is over..
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Aqizzar

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11033 on: January 24, 2010, 02:27:48 pm »

Quote from: devlog
...I went ahead with the quick fix, which is allowing you to build stairs most places, including down into an open area.

Huh.  Well, there it is then, the underground is done in one day thanks to some more physics-bending dwarven architecture.  I am not displeased.

Woo, only the final "makin' everything work" phase left to go.  I wonder how this auspicious event should be celebrated...
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jamoecw

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11034 on: January 24, 2010, 02:31:19 pm »

Will the final stretch contain any optimization code?  For example fluid dynamics and pathing?



I usually average around 40-50ish FPS in the later years of a fort.


The fluid sim is not the only thing that causes lag, its pathing in general that also does this. The burrows stuff should help somewhat to alleviate the pathing lag.

so to answer your question yes, there is some optimization in the pathfinding code, a more comprehensive optimization though deserves its own release.

Toady wanted to get all of the savebreaking stuff out at the same time with this release and after that the releases will come at a much faster pace.



Considering that if you tap a magma pipe or river and have to move the fluid a long distance even the strongest computer drops to a stupidly-low unplayable framerate, I would suggest that this not being on the list to instead have a whole bunch of stuff added to the game when the game could be considered possibly broken by this factor is doing the game and community a disservice.

I understand wanting to add new stuff to DF, I want to have new stuff in DF, but I've got one hell of a beast of a computer that doesn't even twitch when running some of the highest-end games at framerates that tear the screen if I don't turn on an FPS cap, and can play DF on a 10x10 with 120 dwarves in it at 70-90fps. . . . until I tap the magma or water. . .

just because it costs more doesn't mean it is strong.  just because graphic heavy games run smooth doesn't mean that it can process operations quickly.  only in the 'gaming' community would someone mistake a high end graphics card for strength in computational power.  hence a strong computer might not be able to meet the minimum requirements needed to play 'high-end' games.  i am not saying that optimization isn't needed, or desired, but what i am saying is that you have illustrated the main reason as to why most people play DF.  DF walked away from super graphics, in order to focus on what a computer is really good at, computing.  too many people have been fooled to think that their 'super' computer is good, as a comparison my computer was first built by me 9 years ago, and i have not added any components to it in the past 6 years, yet with the maximum embark area, 200 dwarfs, magma and water falls from magma pipes and underground rivers, with tunnels spanning the entire map, along the x,y, and z axis, i end up with fps of 15-18 on 40d (not 40d# mind you).  when i first embark on a normal sized area i have about 37-41 fps, typically i play around 30 fps.  most computers nowadays don't perform as well as some older ones under continuous strain, as a result they perform well on benchmark tests, but are in fact weak computational devices (or computers for short).  anyone can create a fast game with little to no content, currently he is adding back in content that was lost due to needed changes to get zlevels, the next major release i believe will be the optimization release, hence it is a high priority, in fact a much higher one than most game developers, as most never truly optimize their graphics code, which is why one needs such a massively expensive and delicate component that some people forget that it isn't the entire computer.
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Gara-nis

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11035 on: January 24, 2010, 02:39:07 pm »

Just for fun, here's a question about the release after this one :p
Given that dwarves often find occasion to vomit, will the next release include something like a vomitorium? Possibly a zone designated like a meeting room or a garbage dump?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 07:55:31 pm by Gara-nis »
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11036 on: January 24, 2010, 02:46:43 pm »

Just for fun, here's a question about the release after this one :p
Given that dwarves often find occasion to vomit, will the next release include something like a vomitorium? Possibly a zone designated like a meeting room or a garbage dump?

Ignoring the newfound historical innaccuracies of such...

Dwarves don't vomit on occasion. They vomit because they become cave adapted and going outside makes them puke either due to the pressure or photosensitivity or both.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11037 on: January 24, 2010, 02:49:49 pm »

Just for fun, here's a question about the release after this one :p
Given that dwarves often find occasion to vomit, will the next release include something like a vomitorium? Possibly a zone designated like a meeting room or a garbage dump?

No offense, but the color people use for dev questions is limegreen text.  The red highlighting is like visual screaming.  Anyway, did you mean the upcoming release that Toady's working on, or the ones after that?
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Jar of Jam

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11038 on: January 24, 2010, 02:51:16 pm »

What are the chances that the new version will be incompatible with the advanced tilesets, like the Mayday one ?
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Neonivek

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Re: Future of the Fortress: List of Remaining Items
« Reply #11039 on: January 24, 2010, 02:52:12 pm »

What are the chances that the new version will be incompatible with the advanced tilesets, like the Mayday one ?

100%
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