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Author Topic: The Roguelike Development Megathread  (Read 239735 times)

jhxmt

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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #975 on: November 18, 2013, 07:35:32 pm »

Okay, I've been tearing my hair out for a while now, and Stack Overflow, Google and my usual sources aren't getting me any further along.

I'm trying to load a sprite from a spritesheet, with alpha, and overlay it on top of a couple of background layers.  The idea being that the 'charlayer' sprites will keep the transparency that already exists in the files, and therefore look nice.  Ish.

Unfortunately, when I run the program I've currently got, the sprite loads fine...but the parts that should be transparent are black, and overwrite the background layers.

I'm obviously losing the alpha transparency somewhere along the line, but I can't figure out where.

Anybody got any ideas?  Horrible code below (in spoiler).  And yes, this is a practice attempt, not an actual program.  :P

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Mephisto

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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #976 on: November 18, 2013, 08:02:57 pm »

PNG transparency

Have you tried the second answer?

I think I recall doing something similar, but I sadly tossed the code.
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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #977 on: April 29, 2014, 09:51:31 am »

Don't suppose anyone has heard of - or is keen to develop - an async, turn based, multiplayer roguelike?
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Levi

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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #978 on: April 29, 2014, 11:57:32 am »

Don't suppose anyone has heard of - or is keen to develop - an async, turn based, multiplayer roguelike?

I'm curious as to what asynchronous + turn based would mean exactly?  Like anybody can take their turn first, but you have to wait until everybody has finished taking a turn before the next one?

Edit:  Googling it, it sounds sort of like play by email, or like playing Civilisation?  It would be tricky to get something to play well I'd bet, since roguelikes tend to have a lot of really short turns.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 12:03:37 pm by Levi »
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Anvilfolk

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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #979 on: April 29, 2014, 12:39:34 pm »

Don't suppose anyone has heard of - or is keen to develop - an async, turn based, multiplayer roguelike?

Only if by roguelike you accept something like a super complex FTL? :P

EnigmaticHat

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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #980 on: April 29, 2014, 05:18:29 pm »

Most turn based games are asynch.  Synchronous turns would mean simultaneous resolution like in Frozen Synapse, which is rare.
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Retropunch

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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #981 on: April 29, 2014, 06:22:46 pm »

Just chiming in here (I hadn't seen this thread, although you can read about my CyberRogue RL in Creative Projects if you're so inclined). I'd be happy to help anyone with general python+libtcod questions(although please don't spam me with 'why doesn't this work' PMs!) and am looking for help with tiles/art!

As far as multiplayer RLs go, after I (and the other people working on it) finish this current RL game to a suitable standard, we'll be moving on to a space based RL, where a group of players take different roles on a space ship (think ARTEMIS Spaceship Bridge commander, but geared towards exploration instead of just combat). I've already got the foundations sorted (including some working netcode) but it'll be a while off being anything playable.

As far as turn-based multiplayer games, I've always found them incredibly boring. Even when you manage to clear the painstaking early game, you're always stuck with one person who takes forever over their turns, and Play-by-email games are always a bit lengthy. RL turn based games would also suffer from a problem of any co-ordination in tactics - usually one step/move in the wrong direction can mean doom, and trying to coordinate that would be tricky.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #982 on: April 29, 2014, 07:28:39 pm »

If I were designing a game like that I'd probably go with multiple actions per turn, and have a time limit on turns.  So its a game you play with everyone present basically, not a Frozen Synapse take as long as you want game.  As much as I love FS most FS games have only 8 turns.
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Anvilfolk

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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #983 on: April 29, 2014, 09:21:26 pm »

As far as turn-based multiplayer games, I've always found them incredibly boring. Even when you manage to clear the painstaking early game, you're always stuck with one person who takes forever over their turns, and Play-by-email games are always a bit lengthy. RL turn based games would also suffer from a problem of any co-ordination in tactics - usually one step/move in the wrong direction can mean doom, and trying to coordinate that would be tricky.

I'm thinking this could be largely overcome by setting an objective that takes multiple turns, i.e., "move over there and attack that guy". Once everybody's got enough input in, the server would be free to execute at will until something significant happened.

This probably means most combat would have to take place in almost real time, so that it could progress decently, but for exploration and general ship functions it might actually almost work.

Retropunch

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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #984 on: April 30, 2014, 05:53:56 am »

I'm thinking this could be largely overcome by setting an objective that takes multiple turns, i.e., "move over there and attack that guy". Once everybody's got enough input in, the server would be free to execute at will until something significant happened.

This probably means most combat would have to take place in almost real time, so that it could progress decently, but for exploration and general ship functions it might actually almost work.

An interesting idea, although I'm unsure how it'd work in practice.
Lets say you have one player giving orders (which might work in a ship-based game), you'd just have all the other players having to follow their orders to the letter which would get pretty boring.

As in, you wouldn't be able to have everyone setting objectives otherwise you'd get lots of conflicting ones. This doesn't matter in real time, but in a turn based game you'd have conflicts at each turn which would need to be somehow resolved, and would probably just end up with the players not giving the orders just feeling like machines doing functions which could all be done by one player.

If I were designing a game like that I'd probably go with multiple actions per turn, and have a time limit on turns.  So its a game you play with everyone present basically, not a Frozen Synapse take as long as you want game.  As much as I love FS most FS games have only 8 turns.

Multiple actions per turn works, but when you've got pseudo-real time I don't see a reason not to go full real time. With a 'turn clock' you've either got to have twitch based gameplay or still have the old 'someones waiting whilst everyone else finishes turns' problem. Even if it was 30 seconds per turn, you'd still get a lot of slow down and I don't see much benefit.


In essence, I'm a big fan of turn based games - more so than RT really - but I've yet to find a good way of doing turn based multiplayer which doesn't feel as though it's just turn based for the sake of it.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #985 on: April 30, 2014, 10:25:04 am »

Maybe real time with pause?  A traditional roguelike's emphasis on inventory management would make true RT a bit of a problem.

Also if we're going with RT, Risk of Rain is something that resembles a multiplayer roguelike.  Not an exact fit but its a pretty good game.
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Retropunch

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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #986 on: May 01, 2014, 01:01:21 am »

Maybe real time with pause?  A traditional roguelike's emphasis on inventory management would make true RT a bit of a problem.

Also if we're going with RT, Risk of Rain is something that resembles a multiplayer roguelike.  Not an exact fit but its a pretty good game.

Good idea about a RT with a pause function. It works quite well in things like Icewind dale, and would allow for more tactical game play.
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Anvilfolk

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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #987 on: May 01, 2014, 09:05:22 am »

That mechanic has an interesting generalisation that I don't think has been done very often. For a multiplayer real-time game where time can be sped up/slowed down, the game will only run as fast as the slowest speed requested by any player. So if everybody wants to go at 10x speed, but there's one player who needs to do something intricate now and has his speed set to 1x, the game will go at 1x speed until he sets his speed preference to above 1x.

Retropunch

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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #988 on: May 01, 2014, 10:14:55 am »

That mechanic has an interesting generalisation that I don't think has been done very often. For a multiplayer real-time game where time can be sped up/slowed down, the game will only run as fast as the slowest speed requested by any player. So if everybody wants to go at 10x speed, but there's one player who needs to do something intricate now and has his speed set to 1x, the game will go at 1x speed until he sets his speed preference to above 1x.

This is the heart of the problem though, that you've got a few people wanting to do things quickly (due to their tasks/experience/game-play perogative), whilst another person is slowing everyone down. I think it can be overcome with clever game design to make sure everyone goes at around the same speed, but it's still tricky.

One idea I had was an individual 'stasis option' that if everyone clicked it on, the game would speed up to the next event/their destination. This would mean that you'd be able to have a sort of fast forward, but it would be something that everyone would have to agree on and they could do other tasks whilst waiting for everyone to agree on it. There would be a 30 second/1-minute count down before stasis so that tasks could be finished, but it'd allow for moving forward without having to just wait around for everyone else.
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Anvilfolk

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Re: The Roguelike Development Megathread
« Reply #989 on: May 01, 2014, 11:21:02 am »

None of your ideas are incompatible with what I said :) If you have real-time with pause, that is strictly less functionality than speeding up according to the lowest requested speed of players. Statis would be the same as everyone going at 10x speed or whatever the maximum is, and the game auto-pauses or auto-goes-to-1x as soon as some event appears.

Of course, how well this work ultimately depends on the type of game you're making. If it's more of an RTS or RTT, then it could work very well.
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