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How should libraries be set up

Single Giant library workroom. Takes a bit of set-up but once done is done.
- 90 (40%)
Specific Library sections. Books are in the library and the menu is managable.
- 111 (49.3%)
Generic library sections with free floating books. Messy, but flexible.
- 19 (8.4%)
Other: Describe (keep in mind the limits of modding)
- 5 (2.2%)

Total Members Voted: 224


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Author Topic: Civilization Forge 3.0  (Read 190025 times)

Devast

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2009, 08:00:21 am »

Big fan of Civforge (using it right now), your list of different casts is impressive, though I wonder how many/few would make it though worldgenning. anyway.
-The Eye race sounds like some Lovecraftian horror maybe have them live in the extremes of the world such as instant freeze/burn regions.
-Orcs are a great challenge especially when they ride GCS, adding to this challenge maybe make a race a 'zerg' like race with a lot of weak soldiers and make another race with few strong soldiers.
-Maybe buff or increase the numbers of megabeasts
-To the guy that mentioned demons...maybe add a dark wizard megabeast that shoots fireballs or something like that.
Just my 2c
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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2009, 11:54:21 am »

Question for people:

With the new custom workshops I'm rethinking how I want to handle things like the creation of Tempered Crystal, Blood Crystal, etc and the Infused Metals, like Incendium.

Obviously, they won't just happen in the normal smelter anymore.

I'm thinking of having a custom workshop for the Infusions. It'll probably use the Alchemy skill. Not sure yet what components it might need. Blocks and fuel, maybe a bin or barrel.

I'm having trouble deciding about the Crystal materials, though. Right now they just use Cinnabar and Cobaltite. I can do a lot more now, with taking extracts from minerals and whatnot and using those, so I'll probably have Quicksilver and something based on Cobalt. (Blue powder or something). But what else should we use? Gemstones, like the infused iron metals? Plant extracts?

What I eventually do will probably change based on what's actually possible, but I'm trying to get ideas and I'd like to get a sense from people. How much do you use Blood Crystal or Night Crystal right now? What about Void Crystal? They were originally added in to give you a way to make some decent metals without having them on-site (as long as you have cinnabar or cobaltite, at least. Rock crystal of course is all over the place). Not sure if that's how people use them in practice or not, though.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2009, 06:51:05 pm »

I'm thinking of renaming the Dwarves three 'types' off of stones.

Granite Dwarves are the normal ones
Flint Dwarves are the middle group (Hill Dwarves)
Cinnabar Dwarves are the third group (Chaos Dwarves)
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carriontrooper

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2009, 06:34:32 am »

obsidian dwarves for the chaos dwarves, obviously!
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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2010, 01:01:39 pm »

Another option is to have 'Tainted' dwarves, elves, men, etc for the Chaos versions.

Thinking about Castes this morning, and I think it might be neat to have the chaos tainted races have rare castes that show up with things like horns, tails, claws, glowing red eyes, stuff like that. Maybe even bizarre mutations like a single giant arm or skin made of bronze. Could add an interesting aspect to them that makes them more then just 'evil' versions of the good races.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2010, 02:22:39 pm »

Hmm... You know, I'm going to try to make my own mod, and I hadn't seen this thread before.  (Looking for feedback on it, by the way.)

Honestly, one of the things I want to do, however, is move away from the sort of Tolkienian fantasy world, especially where every race is a xenophobic always-one-race version.

Really, looking at these, though, the castes just seem to be good/evil versions of the same thing.  I can't say I really care for simply cookie-cuttering "always chaotic evil" over everything, at least, not without some kind of overarching storyline that would help explain it.  (Some version of a zombie virus that forces a certain ethos.) 

I like adding different races in principle, but I'd rather they have a social impact on the creatures that are already there, rather than simply being "oh, and this, too".

... then again, having said that, I can see some places where the same can be said for my own idea.  Well, that's something to revise, then.  I should put in more effort to create original species.

edit: Sorry, as I hit post, I realized I was only highlighting the percieved negatives...  I definitely support, at least, the basic idea of this, it's just that it doesn't quite match my tastes in fantasy.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 02:24:48 pm by NW_Kohaku »
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2010, 02:36:07 pm »

Well, one of my goals with Civilization Forge is to have a huge variety of options for players. Ultimately, it'll probably get to the point where even on large worlds you won't want to have every race out there. So I'll include my primitive beastmen civs (wolfmen, goatmen, turtlemen, etc), the standard fantasy races, the Xelics, and bizarre stuff like the Eye Creatures.

As Toady gives us more way to influence the cultures of the races I really want to expand on the differences available. Ultimately I expect that the end product will be one where it's less 'always chaotic evil' and more 'likely to pick a fight/be misunderstood/whatever' and those differences should be both cultural and racial. I want the Dyansauri to really be a warlike race. It's not that they're evil, ultimately, its that they are violent and destructive and without war to keep their warriors occupied they get bored and cause problems. Hobgoblins will be more expansionistic and bent on controlling other races. That sort of thing.

So I don't disagree with you. I'm just limited by what Dwarf Fortress will let me do.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2010, 03:10:11 pm »

I have to wonder about how you're using castes here, though.

I was under the impression that castes, in spite of their name, really refers to a sort of sexual (or other) dimorphism within a species at its base.  This means a dwarf civ would spit out chaos dwarves as well as normal dwarves, if both are enabled.

What I was trying to go for was that creatures band together based upon their ethical outlooks and natural habitats, silly things like differences in races be darned.  I actually think that having "humans" or "elves" of slightly different flavors that are inegrated into very different civs would be a better solution, compared to sticking all humans into a single civ, regardless of philosophical outlook.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2010, 03:22:11 pm »

Yes, but that's a limitation with the game engine right now. You can't have civs form spontaneously from disaffected groups. They have to have a base race associated with them and other races only get added in through conquest or snatching.

So...for now, my only option is to make these different races, give them what cultural specifications I can, and make things as interesting as I can with them.

I do want to maintain some basic racial influences on culture, though. These aren't all just humans with funny bodies. I want the Dyansauri to *actually* be more violent and destructive then the other races. The Hobgoblins might have an inner need to control things around them that goes beyond what the other races feel. That sort of thing. If I could I'd want all cultures to arise from these sorts of instinctive behaviors and the various pressures the creatures get from each other and their surroundings.

Not sure if DF will ever get there, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

As for castes, I'm going to use them in a few ways. Most races will just have the male/female castes. The 'tainted' races will also have various 'mutation' castes that differentiate them from the others of their species. The Eye Creatures are going to have lots of castes that reflect the physical diversity amongst them.

Which means that 'tainted' dwarves will technically be a separate species from normal dwarves right now, but that's just another limitation to deal with I guess.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2010, 03:54:46 pm »

Yes, but that's a limitation with the game engine right now. You can't have civs form spontaneously from disaffected groups. They have to have a base race associated with them and other races only get added in through conquest or snatching.

Which is exactly why I'm trying to use castes to create a civ out of multiple inter-breedable races.  Not to toot my own horn too much, but I'd like to see some more feedback on [url\http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=50726.0]what I have planned, myself[/url].

Quote
Which means that 'tainted' dwarves will technically be a separate species from normal dwarves right now, but that's just another limitation to deal with I guess.

Just looking at that little poll, it seems like tripling the number of races is going to essentially force players to mod out some of the races for the simple reason that the game wouldn't be able to fit them all, while at the same time, most players were just using the last version as-is.

Maybe you should consider making, for lack of a better term, "package deals" of selected races?  That is, have a pre-selected "all savage" set, a few different kinds of mixed sets, and some "noble sets" or a sets that have certain races likey to ally, while others seige.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

Improved Farming
Class Warfare

Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2010, 05:54:15 pm »

Not a bad idea. I was going to provide some sets already (like Primitive or Classic Civ Forge sets). But, yeah, the idea is to set up a bunch of races for the player to choose from to have in their world. That way people who don't like standard High Fantasy races can ignore the High Elves and Hobgoblins and players who enjoy those elements can use them.


I looked at your idea. It's pretty interesting, although I think it might be really odd with the current limitations of the game engine. You'll get some interesting stories out of it, though!
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darkflagrance

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2010, 06:57:40 pm »

Question for people:

With the new custom workshops I'm rethinking how I want to handle things like the creation of Tempered Crystal, Blood Crystal, etc and the Infused Metals, like Incendium.

Obviously, they won't just happen in the normal smelter anymore.

I'm thinking of having a custom workshop for the Infusions. It'll probably use the Alchemy skill. Not sure yet what components it might need. Blocks and fuel, maybe a bin or barrel.

I'm having trouble deciding about the Crystal materials, though. Right now they just use Cinnabar and Cobaltite. I can do a lot more now, with taking extracts from minerals and whatnot and using those, so I'll probably have Quicksilver and something based on Cobalt. (Blue powder or something). But what else should we use? Gemstones, like the infused iron metals? Plant extracts?

What I eventually do will probably change based on what's actually possible, but I'm trying to get ideas and I'd like to get a sense from people. How much do you use Blood Crystal or Night Crystal right now? What about Void Crystal? They were originally added in to give you a way to make some decent metals without having them on-site (as long as you have cinnabar or cobaltite, at least. Rock crystal of course is all over the place). Not sure if that's how people use them in practice or not, though.

I assume that these elements/metal alloys will have some magical element to them as well, given their highly flavorful names. In that case, how about requiring some blood or flesh be sacrificed to create them in the form of chunks?
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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2010, 07:06:15 pm »

Makes sense for Blood Crystal. What about Night and Void crystal?
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darkflagrance

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2010, 07:12:20 pm »

If the process of their creation is magical, the sacrifice of blood might be to provide life energy for the reaction.

Chunks could also be used in one infusion. However, this is just a flavor suggestion; you should fit it into the mod as it accords with your vision.

As for me, I will always have the memory of the dwarf in your Civforge fic getting his first piece of void crystal armor, so it has that unique significance for me, at least.
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...as if nothing really matters...
   
The Legend of Tholtig Cryptbrain: 8000 dead elves and a cyclops

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Mephansteras

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Re: Civilization Forge 2.x
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2010, 07:15:14 pm »

I really ought to go back and finish that story sometime...
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Civilization Forge Mod v2.80: Adding in new races, equipment, animals, plants, metals, etc. Now with Alchemy and Libraries! Variety to spice up DF! (For DF 0.34.10)
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