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[SirHoneyBadger]

There have been lots of ideas for magic posted here, but not many of them have the right "feel" or are, in my opinion, the best option for Dwarf Fortress. So here's my suggestion for something a little different, a little more in-depth and useful, and a little more thematic.

This requires the new skill "Elementalism". Elementalism is just like mining, or fishing, or any other skill. You advance through the same exact levels of progression, and you need an Elementalist Workshop to function. Elementalists have the ability to imbue valuable gemstones with the essence of elemental creatures. For instance, you could imbue a diamond with a fire imp and create a fire gem. You then can set these gems into items (with the help of a jeweller), in such a way that it gives the item a special ability. An example would be, setting an elemental ice gem into a chest to create, literally, an "ice-chest", which would keep fresh fish from rotting. A gem imbued with elemental light could be set into a ceiling or what have you, and function as a light source, and the fire gem mentioned above could be used as either a weapon (flaming sword, anyone?), whereas a gem of elemental heat can be used as a heat-source, set into a bed for instance, to keep dwarf feet warm on those cold nights (heat, light, and fire are all separate properties, but they can come from the same source, the same is true of elemental water and elemental ice).

Dwarf elementalists can only imbue gems with elemental properties they, themselves, have an affinity for (strength, fire, salt, darkness, etc.), but other civilizations produce other gems, and they can be traded for, captured  (from goblin strongholds), or looted from corpses (dragons, especially). The gems themselves must be cut, and so a skilled gemcutter will be needed.

The elemental gems can also be used in the creation of traps, either ones that utilize the property of the specific gem (fire, acid, lightning, time, darkness, etc.), or ones that release the elemental creature, which will violently attack the nearest creature or creatures it comes across, until destroyed.

Finally, skilled Elementalists who also are skilled Animal Trainers can communicate with the elemental creature inside of the gem, training it as a pet or servitor. This is the most difficult use of Elementalism, and the elemental creatures have a high risk of going out of control, freeing themselves from their gemstone cages, and turning on their trainers.

Whenever an elemental gemstone is created, there's a chance that it will violently explode, possibly maiming, blinding, or killing your Elementalist, and anyone inside the workshop, and THEN releasing the (extremely angry) elemental creature into your fortress. This can be aided by using more expensive, higher quality gems, and also becomes less frequent as the Elementalist progresses in skill. Dabbling Elementalists should, therefor, be kept away from your general population, and if possible, you're better off starting with a Proficient Elementalist, if you want to use the skill relatively safely.

Once you have the elementally umbued gem, it is safe to use, unless it's destroyed. Destruction of the gem always results in the violent release of the elemental creature, and so care must be taken in the uses and placement of the gems.

[Puzzlemaker]

On magic:

My feeling has always been that dwarven magic wouldn't be "flashy".  As in, for human mages, they throw fireballs, big booms, etc.  For elves, their magic isn't as flashy either, its more nature-based, growing things, getting animals to help, maybe tripping people up with roots.

Dwarven magic should be based around creation, and artifacts.  A dwarven "Mage" would be an engraver, and would have the ability to engrave items to give them bonuses.  The higher quality the engravings + the item + any other things on the item is how much of a bonus it gets.

[Boksi]

Runic magick? Yeah, that's fitting for dwarves.

Myself, I've always imagined magic as subtle. It'd enhance things more easily than create them; it'd be more effective to turn a crossbow bolt into a fireball than to conjure up one. If you do conjure up one, it'd be from the air surrounding you, superheated. Spells would be just like quality modifiers in most cases though; but everyone here knows that 3*3*3 is more than 3*5. A magic modifier would greatly increase an item's power; furniture would be more valuable, swords would be sharper and thusly more damaging. And healing magic, that's something I've thought a bit about. Basically, it'd cause healing to be more rapid; only the greatest spells could prevent death from mortal injuries or regrow lost limbs, if at all.

That's not to say there can't be multiple types of magic. We have cars but we still use ships don't we?

[Hague]

If you follow DnD mythos, there shouldn't be dwarven wizards at all...

Now, I can see dwarven alchemists and dwarven priests, but not dwarven wizards.

[Deon]

Why DnD only?
And rune magic? Dwarfy enough for me.

[Capntastic]

quote:Originally posted by Hague:
<STRONG>If you follow DnD mythos</STRONG>

Thank god Toady's not doing that, because it's dumb, and DF isn't D&D.

[Guy]

Maybe dwarven magic can be like in Michael Scott Rohan's The Anvil of Ice, where magical metal smiths can work powers and charms into the items they forge.  It's been a while since I've read that book, so I am lacking some details.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[SirHoneyBadger]

That's what I mean. Elementalism wouldn't necessarily be at all "flashy", it would be skill-based, it would add qualities, often in very subtle ways, but also enhance those traits dwarfs already have and take joy and pride in: the earth from which the gems are mined, crafting, wealth (the gems themselves), hidden things (again, the gems themselves being set in places which may be hidden, and the elemental creatures themselves, hidden in the gems), and the destruction of their enemies.

It's also a dangerous skill, and encourages the placement of a fortress in a dangerous location, where creatures like fire imps or dragons might be encountered, so I think that goes a long way towards rectifying any balancing issues.

Here's a list of the elemental qualities I've come up with so far:
(elemental creatures required are listed, in cases where I've come up with a good existing candidate)

Exclusive for dwarfs:
Strength (iron man)
Elemental Strength gems set into tools make work easier, weapons hit harder, and structures set with strength gems are more durable.
Fire (fire imp)
Note: fire gems, and items set with them, will set combustables on fire.
Also, if a weapon containing a fire gem strikes an ice creature (blizzard man, ice wolf), the weapon, gem, and creature will be destroyed, and in the process, the trapped elemental in the gem will (safely) dissipate. They, however, do extra damage to mud men.
Gloves or mittens MUST be worn, to wield items set with this gem.
Darkness (giant bat)
Note: gems of this type-once darkness/light is implemented-would create a small patch of unnatural darkness, regardless of other existing light sources.  
Salt  (great white shark?)
Note: Elemental salt, aside from being useful as a preservative, and to counter miasma, could also be very effective as a weapon against undead creatures.
Greed (dragon)
Note: Elemental greed draws precious items towards it, so it may cause a dwarf holding on to an artifact to drop it in the presence of a gem. It may also be used as a sort of "camoflage", protecting items it's set into from being stolen (The gem itself is greedy, it doesn't cause greed). Also, greedy weapons would cause great bloodloss to enemies, but also sap the strength of the dwarf weilding the weapon. Caution: Dwarfs will never willingly release an item set with a Greed gem.
Humans:
Ice (Ice Wolf)
Note: ice weapons have a slowing effect on both magma men and mud men, but do no additional damage. Gloves or mittens MUST be worn, to wield items set with this gem.
Heat (Spirit of Fire)
Note: Gloves or mittens MUST be worn, to wield items set with this gem.
If set into armor, the dwarf will be protected against freezing temperatures and attacks from blizzard-men and ice wolves.
Water (Whale)
Note: water gems produce a slow but steady trickle of drinkable water. If a weapon containing a water gem strikes a fire creature (fire imp, spirit of fire), the weapon, gem, and creature will be destroyed, and in the process, the trapped elemental in the gem will (safely) dissipate. They, however, do extra damage to magma men.  
Acid (Giant Olm)
Note: items set with Acid gems, except gold, would decay much more quickly. Tools set with Acid gems will cut through materials much more quickly, also, so it's a good idea to set them in picks or battle-axes. Weapons set with Acid gems also have the potential to destroy armor.
Lightning (Gremlin)
Note: Lightning weapons, if improperly deployed, can prove more dangerous to the wielder than the enemy. Gloves and boots MUST be worn, and only wooden and leather armor can be worn, or the dwarf will quickly die. Also, the dwarf will die if a lightning weapon is carried into any depth of water. That said, lightning weapons would do extra damage to metal armor wearing foes, and aquatic life.
Elves:
Life (Treant) Life gems aid in healing. Being in the presence of a Life gem, or wearing a ring or other item set with a Life gem will heal a dwarf's wounds more quickly.
Time (bronze colossus)
Note: creatures struck by time weapons are slowed down, while setting a Time gem into an item causes that item to stop aging, and-if applicable-items stored inside have time slowed down for them.
Goblins:
Air: Air gems can be used to create underwater dive-helmets, protecting dwarfs from drowning. They also protect an area from miasma, and improve the breathable air quality underground. Elves can set these gems into their bows to make them much more accurate, but they don't sell the bows and they won't teach outsiders how to set them properly.
Death (Demon)
Note: weapons set with death gems would cause creatures slain by the weapon, upon death, to become undead. The gem would also, over time, cause any nearby skeletons or corpses to also become undead. Furthermore, areas with death gems in them are generally avoided by living creatures, so it could function as a sort of "fear and unease" trap. The wielder of the weapon will age more quickly, and will die if the weapon is held for 1 whole year.
Wrath (Tentacle Demon)
Note: This type of gem increases anger. On weapons, it increases Criticals by 1, and creatures in the presence of the gem will grow angrier, eventually becoming insane and berserk, including those wielding such a weapon. It would make a good trap to trap several individuals in a small room set with the gem, and then watch them over time kill each other. Also good for arena use, since even normally peaceful creatures would eventually become psychotic.
Miasma (Frog Demon)
Note: spreads miasma, and set on a weapon, will inflict poison, infection, disease, rotting wounds, that sort of thing. Sickens the wielder too, over time. Will cause food to rot very quickly, in close proximity.
Misery (Harpy). Causes feelings of pain, loss, and depression, when set into areas. When set into weapons, improves criticals by 1, but gives the wielder bad thoughts. If alchohol of any kind is exposed to a Misery gem, it will turn into poison.
Fear (Foul Blendec). In an area, causes fear and unease, as per the Death Gem, at the same time also causes darkness as the Darkness gem. Can be added to items, but that won't do a lot of good, as Fear gem items cannot be wielded.
Fear gems are good protection against vermin as rats and other small animals will avoid Fear gems at all costs.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I was thinking about Runic magic, but I think that would be connected to a dwarf priesthood. Maybe dwarfs could have greater affiliation with certain deities, once religion is implemented, and those deities could reveal runes to them. They could then gain the "Inscribe Runes" skill, and whatever powers would be associated with that.

Off the top of my head, Runes might be a way to trigger, abilities/effects/traps, and the most powerful might be used to, say, enliven mechanical automatons (including magical prosthetics, for when your dwarf loses a limb) or to "cast" spells on whomever (intelligent, so they can read, but non-dwarf, because dwarfs know their true meaning and can resist/subvert it in their imaginations, and thusly, take no effect) sees them. They certainly should be able to be used as an in-game language to send messages to your dwarfs about certain areas ("avoid this hall", "don't eat the red berries", "don't go outside without your coat", etc.), and would be the basis for the Dwarf language, and language is a magic all it's own. For now though, I was simply assuming that the elemental gems, themselves, would be inscribed with Runes, but if we take Runes to be the "language" of magic, then certainly they can be broadened and fleshed out beyond Elementalism.

Alchemy is another area that has potential for magical or atleast quazi-magical application. The creation of strange alloys, chemicals, and potions are all viable areas dwarfs might excel at, while avoiding the "spellcaster" label. Potions and rare components would also be tradeable with other civilizations.

My initial idea was that Elementalism grants new abilities, whereas Alchemy enhances what's already there. You could use Elementalism to create an ice axe, and Alchemy to make it stronger, lighter, and/or more aesthetically valuable.

Runes-as the language of magic-would therefor be the "blueprint" for magic. To enchant the axe at all, to make it receptive to the power you want to invest in it, you'd have to know the proper runes. Mostly, this would be assumed and offscreen, because Dwarfs know their Runes and they know how to use them properly-so most of "Runic Magic" is just another step in the creation process. You choose the material, shape it, polish it, add your runes, and it's basically done and ready for the "flashier" part of the enchantment process, performed by the Elementalists/Alchemists.

[ February 13, 2008: Message edited by: SirHoneyBadger ]

[ February 13, 2008: Message edited by: SirHoneyBadger ]

[gurra_geban]

everyone has different views on what magic should be, just because it's such a free subject.

i think the elemental magic is a really cool idea, think it really goes in the spirit of the game.
even though i think that if toady decides to have magic, it won't be any posted in the suggestions board ^^

[SirHoneyBadger]

Well, maybe not, but I have a feeling he won't base it on any suggestions I make in my head and don't tell anybody about, either

[qwertyuiopas]

I still think that whatever method Toady uses, it would be nice if locations that make use of magic an any way have a chance of discovering a diffrent way do do things, and that knowledge is only spread by dwarves or traders or others who get in and out of the fortress.
In DF style, those people might become historical figures for bringing secrets of civ X's magic to civ Y, who has crude/inefficient/no knowledge for that type.

A dwarf scout, could be sent out to search for secrets in the nearby wizard's tower through the army arc, and bring back the new magic concept of "summon beer". But, although the dwarf was successful, the wizard was at that same time stealing the dwarf fortress' hidden secrets of stone magic. Each thinks they get the better deal.  

[SirHoneyBadger]

I disagree.

I think it's a lot more interesting and a lot more fun if the civilizations and their various special abilities/technologies/natures don't become a homogenous melting-pot in the game. Trade is an equitable way of obtaining resources from other civilizations, but by making everything doable by everyone, this would actually serve to discourage civilizations to interact.

What's the point of playing a Dwarf, when he's just an elf with a beard?

[Fenrir]

quote:Originally posted by Boksi:
<STRONG>Runic magick? Yeah, that's fitting for dwarves.</STRONG>

[HISTORICAL_ACCURACY_NAZI]I assume your being sarcastic. It is fitting. Dwarfs are from Viking myth. The Vikings used runes to cast spells.[/HISTORICAL_ACCURACY_NAZI] (Well, wannabe historical accuracy nazi, anyway.)