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Author Topic: Racism/slavery  (Read 9379 times)

Pilsu

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Racism/slavery
« on: March 12, 2009, 04:36:48 am »

Currently, losers of a war are seamlessly integrated into the conqueror's society. I'd like to see a more realistic response spectrum, ranging from grudging tolerance of the other races' citizens to genocide and everything in between

For example, a human civilization that manages to win the long drawn out war instigated by the elves would likely not want to make them kings and diplomats any time soon. They'd be far more likely to enslave or outright kill them all considering the massive ethics differences


Any slaves taken in wars should affect politics. For instance, dwarven slaves captured in a war with the humans (does this actually ever happen?) would sour relations with other dwarven civs and inevitably lead to war or diplomacy in an effort to free them. War grudges should not be forgotten lightly


Even if the winner doesn't opt for genocide or slavery, relations between the species should be sour for some time. Slave uprisings and other struggles should be common. The number of slaves should be restricted to a percentage of the parent civ's native citizens for control reasons, otherwise the everliving elves will simply outbreed their masters and inevitably win the slave revolt


It's a fairly complex matter but anything is better than the current instant brainwash method and the resulting elven kings. Even automatic genocide would be a better approach

praguepride

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Re: Racism/slavery
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2009, 09:32:29 am »

Even automatic genocide would be a better approach

Wow! That is a beautiful quote right there
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Man, dwarves are such a**holes!

Even automatic genocide would be a better approach

G-Flex

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Re: Racism/slavery
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2009, 09:35:59 am »

Toady mentions conquering being a little too extreme in a recent dev_now report, so we know he's thought about this, at least.
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Urist McDetective

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Re: Racism/slavery
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2009, 11:09:24 pm »

I support this idea 100% ... even if I'm sure it's already planned.
Also, I had to recheck the distance between Prague & Berlin after reading this thread.
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I have noticed a rather mixed reaction with microcline, but what do people think of olivine?
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praguepride

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Re: Racism/slavery
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2009, 05:20:51 am »

Here's the summary of the czechs in WWII.

Hilter: The czechs R h4xxing and killing my doodz
Everyone Else: Hey czech! stop being a h4xxor!
Hilter: they R  still h4xxing! I shuld get thear base!
Everyone Else: Czech, u need to give up ur base 2 hilter
Czech: ???
Everyone Else: or else!!!!!111
Czech: Lame! I'm going elsewhere
Czech has left the game
Hitler: LOLOLOLOLOLOL now i can totally pwn u doodz!
Everyone Else: F***!
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Man, dwarves are such a**holes!

Even automatic genocide would be a better approach

Neonivek

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Re: Racism/slavery
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2009, 06:53:34 am »

My issue Pilsu is that often... the exact opposite can happen

Slaving the other side in fact improves relations and removes racism
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Pilsu

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Re: Racism/slavery
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2009, 07:35:16 am »

Yes, eventually the slaves can be grudgingly accepted (mind you, this is another species so don't draw any real life connections). However, it should be a lengthy process and takes quite the sophisticated world generation to simulate such a thing

Slaving, revolts and genocidal conquest are a good start

Neonivek

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Re: Racism/slavery
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2009, 07:38:49 am »

Yes, eventually the slaves can be grudgingly accepted (mind you, this is another species so don't draw any real life connections). However, it should be a lengthy process and takes quite the sophisticated world generation to simulate such a thing

Slaving, revolts and genocidal conquest are a good start

What over time? No I mean immediately

Though I am stretching the definition a bit, it still is a form of Slavery (The difference is that the goal isn't really to have slaves... it is to improve your relationship with the other side by making sure you have their people. This practice changed in the Medieval period but still existed in some form through Royal Weddings)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 07:45:57 am by Neonivek »
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Pilsu

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Re: Racism/slavery
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2009, 08:05:11 am »

I'm not really sure what you're referring to but I imagine the whole "killed and ate everyone for cutting trees" might hamper the willingness to re-educate them

winner

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Re: Racism/slavery
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2009, 11:26:46 am »

Yes, eventually the slaves can be grudgingly accepted (mind you, this is another species so don't draw any real life connections). However, it should be a lengthy process and takes quite the sophisticated world generation to simulate such a thing

Slaving, revolts and genocidal conquest are a good start

What over time? No I mean immediately

Though I am stretching the definition a bit, it still is a form of Slavery (The difference is that the goal isn't really to have slaves... it is to improve your relationship with the other side by making sure you have their people. This practice changed in the Medieval period but still existed in some form through Royal Weddings)
But that's not the style of relations that the current system is trying to implement.
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Hoborobo234

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Re: Racism/slavery
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2009, 11:29:20 am »

I would have my Dwarf king surrounded by Elven maidens.
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LegoLord

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Re: Racism/slavery
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2009, 07:49:45 pm »

I'm not really sure what you're referring to but I imagine the whole "killed and ate everyone for cutting trees" might hamper the willingness to re-educate them
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're either strict liberal or strict conservative.  All your arguments involve using the highest extremes to explain why we shouldn't have it at all.

"Elves eat people, so dwarves should hate everyone"?  That's sorta the message you're getting across.  It lacks a fundamental logic.
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RavingManiac

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Re: Racism/slavery
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2009, 10:20:50 am »

I'm not really sure what you're referring to but I imagine the whole "killed and ate everyone for cutting trees" might hamper the willingness to re-educate them
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're either strict liberal or strict conservative.  All your arguments involve using the highest extremes to explain why we shouldn't have it at all.

"Elves eat people, so dwarves should hate everyone"?  That's sorta the message you're getting across.  It lacks a fundamental logic.
Speaking of which, differences in morals should play a big part in race relations after conquest. Dwarves would integrate better with humans, for example, than with Elves.
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The resulting party killed 20 dwarves, crippled 2 more and the remaining 9 managed to get along and have a nice party.

LegoLord

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Re: Racism/slavery
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2009, 10:23:33 am »

I'm not really sure what you're referring to but I imagine the whole "killed and ate everyone for cutting trees" might hamper the willingness to re-educate them
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're either strict liberal or strict conservative.  All your arguments involve using the highest extremes to explain why we shouldn't have it at all.

"Elves eat people, so dwarves should hate everyone"?  That's sorta the message you're getting across.  It lacks a fundamental logic.
Speaking of which, differences in morals should play a big part in race relations after conquest. Dwarves would integrate better with humans, for example, than with Elves.
Exactly.  The idea that dwarves should automatically reject anything that isn't a dwarf or refugee without even taking that into consideration is utter nonsense.
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"Oh look there is a dragon my clothes might burn let me take them off and only wear steel plate."
And this is how tinned food was invented.
Alternately: The Brick Testament. It's a really fun look at what the bible would look like if interpreted literally. With Legos.
Just so I remember

Footkerchief

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Re: Racism/slavery
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2009, 01:54:15 pm »

I'm not really sure what you're referring to but I imagine the whole "killed and ate everyone for cutting trees" might hamper the willingness to re-educate them
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're either strict liberal or strict conservative.  All your arguments involve using the highest extremes to explain why we shouldn't have it at all.

"Elves eat people, so dwarves should hate everyone"?  That's sorta the message you're getting across.  It lacks a fundamental logic.

Please point out where he argued in absolutes at all.  He is arguing, as he said originally, for a "response spectrum," which means that dwarves would hate people under some circumstances and not others.  In the post you quoted, he specifically said it would "hamper their willingness," not eliminate it.  You're completely misrepresenting his position.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 02:05:31 pm by Footkerchief »
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