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Author Topic: Change temperature to Celsius  (Read 32988 times)

LegoLord

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Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2009, 07:36:33 pm »

There, all of you happy? Also, I find it childish that Americans are considered stupid for using a system every bit as arbitrary as the preferred method. I'm sure some third-world country will adopt Kelvin for their daily life and berate the world for using such a cruse measurement as Celsius.
Celsius is based on the boiling point and freezing point of water using multiples of 10 to represent the values.  Kelvin is just Celsius plus 273 so that the lowest temperature, absolute zero, actually has a value of zero rather than -273.  Fahrenheit was based on the highest and lowest temperatures known at the time it was developed, with a totally random value used for the highest number.

There's not much arbitrary about SI, when compared to a system that's holds its unit's origins on arbitrary things like the highest temperatures known and the length of a King's foot.
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Fieari

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Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2009, 08:20:38 pm »

Tangent/Rant:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As for DF?  Toady uses Fahrenheit in his day to day life.  That should be enough reason for him to stick to it.  He's already state that he adds the ridiculously high number to it in order to allow for magically low temperatures in the future (and don't tell me that temperatures lower than 0 kelvin are absurd... if temperature is the measure of molecular movement, and 0 is no movement, negative numbers could represent zero movement plus additional inertia to prevent attempted movement).
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LegoLord

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Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2009, 08:39:30 pm »

While I agree America should probably go to SI for most things, do remember that CELSIUS IS NOT SI.  IT DOES NOT UTILIZE PREFIXES, SUCH AS KILO AND CENTI.
[. . .]
As for DF?  Toady uses Fahrenheit in his day to day life.  That should be enough reason for him to stick to it.  He's already state that he adds the ridiculously high number to it in order to allow for magically low temperatures in the future (and don't tell me that temperatures lower than 0 kelvin are absurd... if temperature is the measure of molecular movement, and 0 is no movement, negative numbers could represent zero movement plus additional inertia to prevent attempted movement).
1) Temperatures don't get high enough or low enough to merit centi and kilo degrees.  That's far more absurd.

2)It has already been stated that the raws can be altered so that the temperature value used is completely up to the modder's preference.

3) Toady is a game designer.  His personal preference for temperature shouldn't be what determines it if the majority of his player base is going to find using the temperature scale Toady uses (in his daily life) difficult.
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"Oh look there is a dragon my clothes might burn let me take them off and only wear steel plate."
And this is how tinned food was invented.
Alternately: The Brick Testament. It's a really fun look at what the bible would look like if interpreted literally. With Legos.
Just so I remember

Mikademus

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Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2009, 09:02:01 pm »

There is a good argument against using non-SI measurements: they make shuttles crash. 
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zchris13

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Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2009, 09:02:30 pm »

When was the poll on this? I was never asked.  Don't say things like that, Legolord, unless you know for sure.  SO START A POLL! GO.
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Neonivek

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Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2009, 09:06:44 pm »

Kinda interesting

I prefer Celcius when trying to determine the temperature of the outdoors. Since it is generally better since 0c is designated.

I prefer F. when trying to determine how healthy someone is. Since 100, someone being ill, is designated rather then the celius guess work.
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0x517A5D

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Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2009, 02:20:05 am »

Well, that was rather more argument than I expected.

Here are some technical things to consider about how the game implements temperature:

  • Floating point math is slower than integer math.
  • Conversion between floating point and integer is very slow.
  • An unsigned integer based on Kelvin is not desirable due to the magic system wanting to be able to make temperatures that are "below absolute zero."
  • Math on Celsius values would be exactly the same speed as math on Kelvin values.
  • Celsius is used in the relevant scientific literature, not Kelvin or Fahrenheit.
  • Math on a 32-bit integer is faster than math on a 16-bit integer.
  • But a 32-bit integer would waste space, as the values would (I think) never go above some 30000 or less than -30000, representable in a 16-bit integer.
  • Temperatures are part of each map cell and each item.  At say 100000 map cells and 100000 items, int32 or float32 temperatures would waste 400Kb.
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Granite26

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Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2009, 08:49:11 am »


    • An unsigned integer based on Kelvin is not desirable due to the magic system wanting to be able to make temperatures that are "below absolute zero."

    Wait, what?  WHY in God's name would even magic need something colder than 'zero molecular movement'?

    praguepride

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    Re: Change temperature to Celsius
    « Reply #38 on: March 16, 2009, 09:14:35 am »


      • An unsigned integer based on Kelvin is not desirable due to the magic system wanting to be able to make temperatures that are "below absolute zero."

      Wait, what?  WHY in God's name would even magic need something colder than 'zero molecular movement'?

      Because...it's magic![/list]
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      Duke 2.0

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      Re: Change temperature to Celsius
      « Reply #39 on: March 16, 2009, 09:19:44 am »


        • An unsigned integer based on Kelvin is not desirable due to the magic system wanting to be able to make temperatures that are "below absolute zero."

        Wait, what?  WHY in God's name would even magic need something colder than 'zero molecular movement'?

        Because...it's magic![/list]
        Negative Molecular Movement.

         Because we need to prove Dark Matter somehow.
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        praguepride

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        Re: Change temperature to Celsius
        « Reply #40 on: March 16, 2009, 09:21:42 am »

        Like I said! Magic!
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        Pilsu

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        Re: Change temperature to Celsius
        « Reply #41 on: March 16, 2009, 09:38:30 am »

        Do you even know what absolute zero means and entails?  ::)

        Duke 2.0

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        Re: Change temperature to Celsius
        « Reply #42 on: March 16, 2009, 09:39:20 am »

         I know, and thus why I threw in the Dark Matter joke.
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        Mikademus

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        Re: Change temperature to Celsius
        « Reply #43 on: March 16, 2009, 09:54:35 am »

        • Floating point math is slower than integer math.
        • Conversion between floating point and integer is very slow.

        That was a while ago. The cycle count for integer and floating point operations are the same on principally all modern CPUs. If you can get some modern game code you'll see that they use almost only floating points.
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        praguepride

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        Re: Change temperature to Celsius
        « Reply #44 on: March 16, 2009, 10:19:39 am »

        Which is why they're building physics cards to handle the floating point overflow from regular graphics cards.
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