Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 14

Author Topic: Change temperature to Celsius  (Read 61829 times)

LegoLord

  • Bay Watcher
  • Can you see it now?
    • View Profile
Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2009, 07:36:33 pm »

There, all of you happy? Also, I find it childish that Americans are considered stupid for using a system every bit as arbitrary as the preferred method. I'm sure some third-world country will adopt Kelvin for their daily life and berate the world for using such a cruse measurement as Celsius.
Celsius is based on the boiling point and freezing point of water using multiples of 10 to represent the values.  Kelvin is just Celsius plus 273 so that the lowest temperature, absolute zero, actually has a value of zero rather than -273.  Fahrenheit was based on the highest and lowest temperatures known at the time it was developed, with a totally random value used for the highest number.

There's not much arbitrary about SI, when compared to a system that's holds its unit's origins on arbitrary things like the highest temperatures known and the length of a King's foot.
Logged
"Oh look there is a dragon my clothes might burn let me take them off and only wear steel plate."
And this is how tinned food was invented.
Alternately: The Brick Testament. It's a really fun look at what the bible would look like if interpreted literally. With Legos.
Just so I remember

Fieari

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2009, 08:20:38 pm »

Tangent/Rant:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As for DF?  Toady uses Fahrenheit in his day to day life.  That should be enough reason for him to stick to it.  He's already state that he adds the ridiculously high number to it in order to allow for magically low temperatures in the future (and don't tell me that temperatures lower than 0 kelvin are absurd... if temperature is the measure of molecular movement, and 0 is no movement, negative numbers could represent zero movement plus additional inertia to prevent attempted movement).
Logged

LegoLord

  • Bay Watcher
  • Can you see it now?
    • View Profile
Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2009, 08:39:30 pm »

While I agree America should probably go to SI for most things, do remember that CELSIUS IS NOT SI.  IT DOES NOT UTILIZE PREFIXES, SUCH AS KILO AND CENTI.
[. . .]
As for DF?  Toady uses Fahrenheit in his day to day life.  That should be enough reason for him to stick to it.  He's already state that he adds the ridiculously high number to it in order to allow for magically low temperatures in the future (and don't tell me that temperatures lower than 0 kelvin are absurd... if temperature is the measure of molecular movement, and 0 is no movement, negative numbers could represent zero movement plus additional inertia to prevent attempted movement).
1) Temperatures don't get high enough or low enough to merit centi and kilo degrees.  That's far more absurd.

2)It has already been stated that the raws can be altered so that the temperature value used is completely up to the modder's preference.

3) Toady is a game designer.  His personal preference for temperature shouldn't be what determines it if the majority of his player base is going to find using the temperature scale Toady uses (in his daily life) difficult.
Logged
"Oh look there is a dragon my clothes might burn let me take them off and only wear steel plate."
And this is how tinned food was invented.
Alternately: The Brick Testament. It's a really fun look at what the bible would look like if interpreted literally. With Legos.
Just so I remember

Mikademus

  • Bay Watcher
  • Pirate ninja dwarves for great justice
    • View Profile
Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2009, 09:02:01 pm »

There is a good argument against using non-SI measurements: they make shuttles crash. 
Logged
You are a pirate!

Quote from: Silverionmox
Quote from: bjlong
If I wanted to recreate the world of one of my favorite stories, I should be able to specify that there is a civilization called Groan, ruled by Earls from a castle called Gormanghast.
You won't have trouble supplying the Countess with cats, or producing the annual idols to be offerred to the castle. Every fortress is a pale reflection of Ghormenghast..

zchris13

  • Bay Watcher
  • YOU SPIN ME RIGHT ROUND~
    • View Profile
Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2009, 09:02:30 pm »

When was the poll on this? I was never asked.  Don't say things like that, Legolord, unless you know for sure.  SO START A POLL! GO.
Logged
this sigtext was furiously out-of-date and has been jettisoned

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2009, 09:06:44 pm »

Kinda interesting

I prefer Celcius when trying to determine the temperature of the outdoors. Since it is generally better since 0c is designated.

I prefer F. when trying to determine how healthy someone is. Since 100, someone being ill, is designated rather then the celius guess work.
Logged

0x517A5D

  • Bay Watcher
  • Hex Editor‬‬
    • View Profile
Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2009, 02:20:05 am »

Well, that was rather more argument than I expected.

Here are some technical things to consider about how the game implements temperature:

  • Floating point math is slower than integer math.
  • Conversion between floating point and integer is very slow.
  • An unsigned integer based on Kelvin is not desirable due to the magic system wanting to be able to make temperatures that are "below absolute zero."
  • Math on Celsius values would be exactly the same speed as math on Kelvin values.
  • Celsius is used in the relevant scientific literature, not Kelvin or Fahrenheit.
  • Math on a 32-bit integer is faster than math on a 16-bit integer.
  • But a 32-bit integer would waste space, as the values would (I think) never go above some 30000 or less than -30000, representable in a 16-bit integer.
  • Temperatures are part of each map cell and each item.  At say 100000 map cells and 100000 items, int32 or float32 temperatures would waste 400Kb.
Logged

Granite26

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Change temperature to Celsius
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2009, 08:49:11 am »


    • An unsigned integer based on Kelvin is not desirable due to the magic system wanting to be able to make temperatures that are "below absolute zero."

    Wait, what?  WHY in God's name would even magic need something colder than 'zero molecular movement'?

    praguepride

    • Bay Watcher
    • DF is serious business!
      • View Profile
    Re: Change temperature to Celsius
    « Reply #38 on: March 16, 2009, 09:14:35 am »


      • An unsigned integer based on Kelvin is not desirable due to the magic system wanting to be able to make temperatures that are "below absolute zero."

      Wait, what?  WHY in God's name would even magic need something colder than 'zero molecular movement'?

      Because...it's magic![/list]
      Logged
      Man, dwarves are such a**holes!

      Even automatic genocide would be a better approach

      Duke 2.0

      • Bay Watcher
      • [CONQUISTADOR:BIRD]
        • View Profile
      Re: Change temperature to Celsius
      « Reply #39 on: March 16, 2009, 09:19:44 am »


        • An unsigned integer based on Kelvin is not desirable due to the magic system wanting to be able to make temperatures that are "below absolute zero."

        Wait, what?  WHY in God's name would even magic need something colder than 'zero molecular movement'?

        Because...it's magic![/list]
        Negative Molecular Movement.

         Because we need to prove Dark Matter somehow.
        Logged
        Buck up friendo, we're all on the level here.
        I would bet money Andrew has edited things retroactively, except I can't prove anything because it was edited retroactively.
        MIERDO MILLAS DE VIBORAS FURIOSAS PARA ESTRANGULARTE MUERTO

        praguepride

        • Bay Watcher
        • DF is serious business!
          • View Profile
        Re: Change temperature to Celsius
        « Reply #40 on: March 16, 2009, 09:21:42 am »

        Like I said! Magic!
        Logged
        Man, dwarves are such a**holes!

        Even automatic genocide would be a better approach

        Pilsu

        • Bay Watcher
          • View Profile
        Re: Change temperature to Celsius
        « Reply #41 on: March 16, 2009, 09:38:30 am »

        Do you even know what absolute zero means and entails?  ::)
        Logged

        Duke 2.0

        • Bay Watcher
        • [CONQUISTADOR:BIRD]
          • View Profile
        Re: Change temperature to Celsius
        « Reply #42 on: March 16, 2009, 09:39:20 am »

         I know, and thus why I threw in the Dark Matter joke.
        Logged
        Buck up friendo, we're all on the level here.
        I would bet money Andrew has edited things retroactively, except I can't prove anything because it was edited retroactively.
        MIERDO MILLAS DE VIBORAS FURIOSAS PARA ESTRANGULARTE MUERTO

        Mikademus

        • Bay Watcher
        • Pirate ninja dwarves for great justice
          • View Profile
        Re: Change temperature to Celsius
        « Reply #43 on: March 16, 2009, 09:54:35 am »

        • Floating point math is slower than integer math.
        • Conversion between floating point and integer is very slow.

        That was a while ago. The cycle count for integer and floating point operations are the same on principally all modern CPUs. If you can get some modern game code you'll see that they use almost only floating points.
        Logged
        You are a pirate!

        Quote from: Silverionmox
        Quote from: bjlong
        If I wanted to recreate the world of one of my favorite stories, I should be able to specify that there is a civilization called Groan, ruled by Earls from a castle called Gormanghast.
        You won't have trouble supplying the Countess with cats, or producing the annual idols to be offerred to the castle. Every fortress is a pale reflection of Ghormenghast..

        praguepride

        • Bay Watcher
        • DF is serious business!
          • View Profile
        Re: Change temperature to Celsius
        « Reply #44 on: March 16, 2009, 10:19:39 am »

        Which is why they're building physics cards to handle the floating point overflow from regular graphics cards.
        Logged
        Man, dwarves are such a**holes!

        Even automatic genocide would be a better approach
        Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 14