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Author Topic: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons  (Read 6609 times)

Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2009, 02:51:39 pm »

Because sometimes making things better and making things bigger isn't the same thing -- nerfing strategies and cutting features might seem like counterproductive bad things, but often they can help to build a more focused, more sleek package.
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praguepride

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2009, 06:27:58 pm »

Fair enough. If it's a waste of points, it's a waste of points.

Maybe tie my idea into unarmed attacks then? Add some flavor text about smashing heads against walls/floors/shelves? Spice things up a bit more then just "X punches Y in the arm"
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Man, dwarves are such a**holes!

Even automatic genocide would be a better approach

Oksbad

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2009, 12:26:53 pm »

Because sometimes making things better and making things bigger isn't the same thing -- nerfing strategies and cutting features might seem like counterproductive bad things, but often they can help to build a more focused, more sleek package.

But why cut improvised weapons in particular? Aren't they a part of the arsenal of almost any mob to date?
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I always just found it peculiar that the police are always able to pin the crime on you 100 percent of the time. The fact that organized crime rings exist at all without being bombed to hell by the national guard is evidence enough that this is not strictly the case in reality.

Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2009, 03:18:05 pm »

I'm talking about cutting the skill, not the weapons.
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AdamN

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2009, 08:47:51 am »

Difficulty and surprise. Kidnapping wouldn't be a sure thing anymore.

If i pointed a gun at your face and tryed to kidnap you then you wouldnt attack me with a chair would you? It would make no difference to kidnaps as long as the kidnapper was armed
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mainiac

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2009, 09:56:06 am »

Difficulty and surprise. Kidnapping wouldn't be a sure thing anymore.

If i pointed a gun at your face and tryed to kidnap you then you wouldnt attack me with a chair would you? It would make no difference to kidnaps as long as the kidnapper was armed

That really depends on the kidnapper and kidnappee.  Some people are more willing to try fighting.  Some kidnappers are more likely to inspire resistance.

Maybe kidnapping should be related to the same skill as interrogation?  The skill could be renamed "intimidation" to serve both these roles since stockholm syndrome style brainwashing does require inspiring terror in the target.  When you try to kidnap you make an intimidation check that's harder against higher notoriety targets and one of the following happens:
Success: target comes quietly
Failure: target slips free and triggers attack by kidnapper.  If wounded, target comes with kidnapper, but triggers alarm if anyone sees them.  If not wounded, target escapes.
Bigger Failure: Target escapes and triggers alarm.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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beorn080

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2009, 10:26:47 am »

A gun is a relatively poor melee range weapon. A knife is actually better for kidnapping since you don't have to worry about a misfire, you can't just knock the blade away you have to hit the arm, and its silent. I would be FAR more likely to resist a guy with a gun then with a knife. Guns jam easily, make lots of noise, and require an unnatural movement to get them to work.
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Ustxu Iceraped the Frigid Crystal of Slaughter was a glacier titan. It was the only one of its kind. A gigantic feathered carp composed of crystal glass. It has five mouths full of treacherous teeth, enormous clear wings, and ferocious blue eyes. Beware its icy breath! Ustxu was associated with oceans, glaciers, boats, and murder.

mainiac

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2009, 01:43:05 pm »

A gun is a relatively poor melee range weapon. A knife is actually better for kidnapping since you don't have to worry about a misfire, you can't just knock the blade away you have to hit the arm, and its silent. I would be FAR more likely to resist a guy with a gun then with a knife. Guns jam easily, make lots of noise, and require an unnatural movement to get them to work.

I'd rather not pin my hopes of survival on a gun jamming, myself.  Your funeral.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Yanlin

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2009, 02:44:19 pm »

In what kind of universe do modern guns jam easily? Only extremely overused or dirty guns jam easily.
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beorn080

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2009, 09:07:07 pm »

Standard gun self defense is to grab the barrel of the gun where the spent cartridge is ejected. Yes, you will get burned, but the gun should jam if the cartridge doesn't get expelled properly. Plus, compared to a knife, they jam extremely often compared to knives jamming.
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Ustxu Iceraped the Frigid Crystal of Slaughter was a glacier titan. It was the only one of its kind. A gigantic feathered carp composed of crystal glass. It has five mouths full of treacherous teeth, enormous clear wings, and ferocious blue eyes. Beware its icy breath! Ustxu was associated with oceans, glaciers, boats, and murder.

Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2009, 11:38:50 pm »

I have to admit I've personally known a business owner that apparently kicked a gun out of the robber's hand when somebody tried to hold him up in his place of business. That's how the story went anyway.

Given the options of:
1) Potentially getting shot at and hoping the gun jams, or
2) Not getting shot at

The answer is pretty obvious for most people -- whatever the small print is on option 2, it's still a pretty hot choice. Especially if the gun jamming requires that you allow at least one bullet to be fired successfully, since you're trying to manually prevent a cartridge from being expelled.
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Yanlin

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2009, 11:33:41 am »

Only incompetent fools use a gun at the range that allows the target to grab it.
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beorn080

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2009, 11:42:10 am »

I am assuming that to kidnap a person with a gun you are standing behind them using their body to shield the gun. I've taken several self defense classes, and that sort of situation is relatively easy to defeat. A gun is not designed for ranges where you can be grabbed, whereas a knife is. If your not in melee range, the person should have a chance to bolt, and if you are, they should try to defend themselves if they have Martial arts.

I find it odd how scared people get of a gun, and yet they have significantly less fear of knives. Guns have much less total killing potential then even a paring knife, and combat knives are incredibly effective.
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Ustxu Iceraped the Frigid Crystal of Slaughter was a glacier titan. It was the only one of its kind. A gigantic feathered carp composed of crystal glass. It has five mouths full of treacherous teeth, enormous clear wings, and ferocious blue eyes. Beware its icy breath! Ustxu was associated with oceans, glaciers, boats, and murder.

mainiac

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2009, 01:36:33 pm »

Who the hell is teaching your self defense class?  The first rule of gun safety is that when a gun is pointed at a person, you have an extremely dangerous situation.  No exceptions!
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Ciarog

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Re: Suggestion: Random Improvised Weapons
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2009, 02:15:34 pm »

I'd say both sides have their good points in this argument.

Most of the world's armies still equip their soldiers with bayonets, partially for the very reasons brought up by beorn080. Any half-baked insurgent force would no doubt do the same, especially if crowd control or prisoner escort ever becomes necessary.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 02:24:30 pm by Ciarog »
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