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[Jonathan S. Fox]

Hard statistics on kidnapping survival are virtually impossible to find, but the almost universal advice from police to self defense teachers is to never allow yourself to be taken to an another location, even if you are at gunpoint or being moved by force. This is true in the United States, at least, where kidnapping for ransom is extremely rare; in the US, if you don't know the person, it is virtually guaranteed that they are taking you to a secure location in which to inflict severe violence on you.

Spoiler: Some examples of this advice. (click to show/hide)

If attacked, attempt to comply with any demands for property and assume any threat is real.  For example, if the perpetrator says he has a knife, assume he does.  If the attacker’s demands are not related to your property, but are of a personal nature, be prepared to defend yourself. Do not consent to accompany the attacker to a secondary location in an attempt to pacify; generally speaking the odds are not good that you will survive.  If you fight, run, and/or scream your survival chances greatly improve.

www.vestaviahills.net/Portals/0/departments/police/PERSONAL%20PROTECTION%2011-4-08.doc

This week my mom and I have been taking a women's self-defense type class. Its been more practical knowlege than hands-on stuff, but this is some of it:

*Don't EVER let them get you somewhere else. Chances are if they've got a gun and are trying to get you in a car, etc, they are just trying to use it to scare you. Call their bluff - try and make them use it in a public area, not in that secluded second crime scene. Chances are that even if they do attack, you'll be surrounded by people and can get help.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/archive/index.php/t-21424.html

Now those emails that continually circulate? Yes, some of the information is helpful (at least it makes you "think" about your safety and what you might do in a situation) but some can actually do more harm than good. The arm out a tail light strategy. Have you ever tried to get in the trunk of your car or looked at the way the tail light is set up? Sorry, can't do it. Best thing? DON'T let anyone remove you to a secondary location! You have a better chance of survival (even if a weapon is involved) if you fight. Statistically, your chance of survival at a secondary location is less than 1%.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Oprah-And-The-Gift&id=956597

The experts do agree on one thing: Don’t let the attacker transfer you to a second crime scene. The second scenario is almost always more violent, and your chances of survival diminish.

http://www.c-ville.com/Portlet/Print_Friendly.php?Print=Category&z_Category_ID=141404064434008

Don’t ever agree to be transported somewhere else like to an ATM machine or other location unless you feel it’s a life or death decision. The second crime scene is almost always more violent than in your home.

http://www.crimedoctor.com/home2.htm

Tip #13 NEVER allow yourself to be taken to a secondary location
Most muggers only want your money or valuables, if you give them to him without resistance you will often be fine. However, if a mugger tries to force you into a car or take you to another location, all bets are off.

     Reason: Secondary locations are death traps. If you are a woman and you allow yourself to be taken elsewhere the *absolute best* you can hope for is that you will only be raped. Which should tell you how bad it is if being raped is the best that will happen. While there is something like a 3% chance that you won't be raped, assaulted and/or murdered, this is kidnap. And in the eyes of the law, the only crime worse than kidnap is premeditated murder. The law savagely prosecutes kidnappers anyway so there is no reason for the criminal NOT to rape and kill you.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/robbery_avoidance.html

Mainac: By active we mean deadly. A handgun has 15 instances ,typically, of deadliness along a straight line from the barrel of the gun, therefore it has a limited activeness.

That's actually not what Rezan was talking about, and if it were, it wouldn't be an effective argument:

Basically the concept is how "active" a weapon is. Any active weapon is always dangerous to disarm. A knife is always active in someone's hand, thus it is always dangerous to disarm. A gun is only ever active when the holder has decided to pull the trigger.

Mainiac is correct in pointing out that guns are active and very dangerous when someone has not yet decided to pull the trigger -- and I would add that this threat is radically increased when you are dealing with someone who is pumped up on adrenaline or worse, is in a criminal mindset with little concern for human life and likely intends to kill you anyway, and is already pointing the gun at you as a credible threat to shoot and kill you on the spot. Furthermore, any attempt to disarm a violent criminal will essentially guarantee that they decide to go ahead and maim or kill you. The type of person who will rationally back down or be stunned into inaction when attacked in this manner is the type of person who would not be trying to kidnap you with a loaded gun in the first place.

[Servant Corps]

Okay. So an LCS agent got a loaded gun. He pointed it at you and want you to go to the Homeless Shelter to be reprogrammed. You know that going into a secondary location is likely going to lead to unspeakable things happening to you at said Shelter, so you have to make sure you do not go to the Homeless Shelter. Either the LCS Agent fails in brainwashing you, meaning you just die...or the LCS Agent does brainwash you and then sends you off to die in a Liberal blaze of glory.

But the guy has a gun. You cannot disarm the LCS Agent because in the process he'll just fire it at you and you die. But you do not want to go to the Homeless Shelter because you know going to a secondary location is bad for your survival rating. You can run...but then the LCS agent will fire. If you scream, the LCS Agent may decide to fire, or he may decide to just run to avoid the cops, but that all depends on how much the LCS Agent fears the cops.

So, Jonathan S. Fox, how would you recommend stopping an LCS agent from kidnapping you, assuming if he is armed with a gun? (Since everyone knows that if you "just" have a katana, you can just punch the kidnapper in question.)

[Jonathan S. Fox]

So, Jonathan S. Fox, how would you recommend stopping an LCS agent from kidnapping you, assuming if he is armed with a gun? (Since everyone knows that if you "just" have a katana, you can just punch the kidnapper in question.)

Well, clearly you are a Conservative, and have no problem with guns -- you therefore get a concealed carry permit, so that you can merely pull your jacket a bit tighter so that it subtly creases around the outline of the handgun holster on your vest, which causes the LCS member to decide you are "too dangerous".

If you're on a date, you're screwed, because you left your gun at home and went to a private place where you could get close with them on a first date instead of meeting in public first. At this point you start kicking yourself for having such poor taste in pickup lines, and start planning your escape.

[mainiac]

To offer a broader perspective, for a moment, let me remind everyone of the most important thing of all:

NEVER, EVER, let him take the choke because, if you're out, God knows what he's going to do... with your holes.

[Neonivek]

Hard statistics on kidnapping survival are virtually impossible to find, but the almost universal advice from police to self defense teachers is to never allow yourself to be taken to an another location, even if you are at gunpoint or being moved by force

I am glad I am right. A Teacher openly in class dismissed this and said something "Two old women were kidnapped last week and were let go".

Though investigating further those two women were not the intended victums. So... yeah...

[Jonathan S. Fox]

If there was a mistaken identity at all, that means kidnappers were targeting someone. Targeted kidnappings are generally more safe, since they aren't usually motivated by the intent to rape, murder, or commit some other extremely violent crime. Ransom kidnappers don't want to harm to their target, and family kidnappings also tend to have no intention of hurting their target, since the motivations are very different. Ransom kidnappings are rare in the US, however, and family on family kidnapping is outside the scope of my remarks. I don't know who these women were, or what the motivations of the kidnappers was, but it definitely sounds like a very special case.

[Neonivek]

I seriously wonder what the chances are of getting a Random kidnapped person back though or in one peice.

[Yanlin]

How to not get datenapped. Have a good taste in pickup lines.

[Neonivek]

How to not get datenapped. Have a good taste in pickup lines.

There is such a thing as a good pick up "Line"?

[Yanlin]

Want to hear something disturbing?

[mainiac]

What?

[Yanlin]

That's not a slogan in my pocket. I'm just happy to see you.

Yeah. We're gonna need a slogan!

[mainiac]

We can come up with a slogan tonight, baby.

[Ciarog]

"Magical Baby Raccoons rend your flesh in twain and tear your soul asunder."

[mainiac]

Jesus...