Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 107 108 [109] 110 111 ... 137

Author Topic: What turns you off about DF?  (Read 168008 times)

Rockphed

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1620 on: November 12, 2011, 01:15:07 am »

Some of the dwarves' methods of making decisions are rather counterintuitive. There are several processes where the item/job is selected based on which one was created first; the only place where this really makes sense is constructions, and even there it would make more sense for more-recently assigned tasks to be done first. Workshops should respect obstacles when selecting materials and miners should mine the closest spot available.

The miners and workshop things are accountable for, if annoying if you don't realize about them.  On some level, it becomes a question of how much more processing power it would take to properly judge the best place to stand to mine a block of rock versus how much more effective it will be.  Hopefully toady will find a really slick path-finding algorithm and be able to do things like compare which direction to mine from is closest or which rock is actually the fastest to get.

I could have sworn that constructions did work in reverse age order.  I guess I need to go check.
Logged
Only vaguely. Made of the same substance and put to the same use, but a bit like comparing a castle and a doublewide trailer.

Draco18s

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1621 on: November 12, 2011, 01:27:13 am »

I could have sworn that constructions did work in reverse age order.  I guess I need to go check.

Reverse age order is correct.  First in, Last Out.
Logged

SebbyTheFreak

  • Bay Watcher
  • Gold for the Gold God
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1622 on: November 12, 2011, 11:24:05 am »

Well, from all my friends, I'm the only one who have no real problems with the game since I love optimised controls and am used to using exclusively my keyboard thanks to alot of my childhood spent playing simulation games.

However, everyone else hates the fact you can't navigate throught he menus with the mouse... well basically they'd wish you could play the game with the mouse only.

So yeah... the mouse is the biggest issue for all the people I know.
Logged

Eric Blank

  • Bay Watcher
  • Never stabs friends, promise!
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1623 on: November 12, 2011, 11:55:51 am »

Standardized tutorials, or better publishing of the community-created ones, may be helpful to players willing to at least learn to play it. A lot of people though, especially younger players, are so instantly turned off by the realization that they need to know anything new or spend any brainpower on comprehending how the game displays the world (It's the 2d top-down as much as the ASCII) that they will walk away and never look back. I would have to say that if the game cannot be played with ungodly 3d graphics and standardized controls, a huge portion of those 90% we're losing can just be lopped off and completely ignored.
Fortunately for the community it's also filtered out most of the idiots.

The violence inherent to the game may be a turn off for a few people as well, but then again most people don't see it coming and once it begins they tend to just let it continue to it's full potential as if it's becoming normal to them.
Logged
"THEN CAME TOBNOM, ASS-GOD".
I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.

Andir

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1624 on: November 12, 2011, 03:02:44 pm »

Well, from all my friends, I'm the only one who have no real problems with the game since I love optimised controls and am used to using exclusively my keyboard thanks to alot of my childhood spent playing simulation games.

However, everyone else hates the fact you can't navigate throught he menus with the mouse... well basically they'd wish you could play the game with the mouse only.

So yeah... the mouse is the biggest issue for all the people I know.
The same thing occurs with games today, though it's called consolitis and from what I hear, Skyrim falls victim to this as well.  There are well established controls for doing certain actions and DF violates some of those by making mouse interactions a total mess.
Logged
"Having faith" that the bridge will not fall, implies that the bridge itself isn't that trustworthy. It's not that different from "I pray that the bridge will hold my weight."

Quarterblue

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1625 on: November 12, 2011, 09:39:56 pm »

I would have to say that if the game cannot be played with ungodly 3d graphics and standardized controls, a huge portion of those 90% we're losing can just be lopped off and completely ignored.
Fortunately for the community it's also filtered out most of the idiots.

They will be added. In 2020. Not even joking. Also, people wishing to have 3d graphics in a game aren't idiots.
Logged

Squidpalace

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1626 on: November 12, 2011, 11:24:26 pm »

They will be added. In 2020. Not even joking. Also, people wishing to have 3d graphics in a game aren't idiots.

Whether or not df will ever have 3d graphics is debated frequently. Most often the conclusion is that it is very low on the priority list, that's if it is even possible or desirable. Eric wasn't saying that people who want graphics are idiots, only that people who are able to enjoy df as it is are often not idiots.
Logged

Nivim

  • Bay Watcher
  • Has the asylum forgotten? Are they still the same?
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1627 on: November 13, 2011, 06:54:03 am »

 I have an unnatural and probably foolish degree of confidence that the guy I mentioned here will indeed end up giving Dwarf Fortress graphics someday. There happens to be a poll there, if you care.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 07:13:09 am by Nivm »
Logged
Imagine a cool peice of sky-blue and milk-white marble about 3cm by 2cm and by 0.5cm, containing a tiny 2mm malacolite crystal. Now imagine the miles of metamorphic rock it's embedded in that no pick or chisel will ever touch. Then, imagine that those miles will melt back into their mantle long before any telescope even refracts an image of their planet. The watchers will be so excited to have that image too.

Squidpalace

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1628 on: November 13, 2011, 07:03:48 am »

I mentioned here

Link goes to a holiday destination near Coffs Harbour.
Logged

Weaselcake

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1629 on: November 13, 2011, 07:08:28 am »

I hate how there's not enough chances for 'Fun' after you eventually master the game. The strongest defense can always defeat the strongest offense in this. I'd like to see deployable ladders (so sieging enemies can climb wall defenses), more enemies that can destroy constructions, and maybe enemies that can even 'dig' their way inside the fortress if there's no other way inside.
Logged

Nivim

  • Bay Watcher
  • Has the asylum forgotten? Are they still the same?
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1630 on: November 13, 2011, 07:15:05 am »

I mentioned here
Link goes to a holiday destination near Coffs Harbour.
I knew I was forgetting something; fixed this and the first.
Logged
Imagine a cool peice of sky-blue and milk-white marble about 3cm by 2cm and by 0.5cm, containing a tiny 2mm malacolite crystal. Now imagine the miles of metamorphic rock it's embedded in that no pick or chisel will ever touch. Then, imagine that those miles will melt back into their mantle long before any telescope even refracts an image of their planet. The watchers will be so excited to have that image too.

hoveringdog

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1631 on: November 13, 2011, 02:12:40 pm »

I hate how there's not enough chances for 'Fun' after you eventually master the game. The strongest defense can always defeat the strongest offense in this. I'd like to see deployable ladders (so sieging enemies can climb wall defenses), more enemies that can destroy constructions, and maybe enemies that can even 'dig' their way inside the fortress if there's no other way inside.

Yeah, this. I still very much enjoy the game, but it's too easy to create a prosperous, self-contained fortress while shutting out sieges with a simple drawbridge (or slaughtering the invaders wholesale by leading them single file like lemmings down a corridor of spinning blades). The main activity of the end game for me is now carving enough storage space and constructing enough containers to store a ridiculous wealth of food and crafts. Enemies that climbed, dug, destroyed walls, and avoided known traps would make for more interesting and challenging game play (as would siege engines that could actually target enemies, catapults capable of indirect fire and beating down walls, and enemies who could build siege engines in the field.)

Hopefully, the new vampire dwarves, at least, will mix things up a bit.
Logged

Kogut

  • Bay Watcher
  • Next account: Bulwersator
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1632 on: November 13, 2011, 02:18:55 pm »

Broken [FLIER] tag.
Logged
The worst bug - 34.11 poll
Tired of going decades without goblin sieges? Try The Fortress Defense Mod
Kogut, the Bugfixes apostle of Bay12forum. Every posts he makes he preaches about the evil of Bugs.

QuakeIV

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cant resist... must edit post.
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1633 on: November 13, 2011, 06:28:22 pm »

Restarting after my latest failure.

That gets old pretty fast, otherwise the game is fine imo.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 06:30:03 pm by QuakeIV »
Logged
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
I wish my grass was emo, then it would cut itself.
Quote from: Jesus
Quote from: The Big Fat Carp
Jesus, you broke the site!
Sorry, Bro.
link to quote

Jiri Petru

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What turns you off about DF?
« Reply #1634 on: November 14, 2011, 06:51:36 am »

The game is tedious. Full stop.

It has some great moments thanks to its depth... enough to make it worth playing. The problem is that these are bogged down in too much menial tasks that are no fun at all. Endless micromanagement just to keep your fortress running, spending hours in miles long lists and doing many more unfun tasks.

As more and more features get added, even more micromanagement is required to achieve the same things - an oft quoted example is the new military system. While it is true it adds new options, which is always good, is also requires the player to spend more time fiddling with menus than before. Which is just bad design. Dtto for healthcare, revamped materials and many more new features.

In short, the game needs to greatly improve its tedium/fun ratio by:

1) Sensible interface (!!!) that minimizes the number of tasks that need to be done regularly, and makes important tasks (ie. setting up a military) as quick and easy as possible.
2) Optional automation for the menial tasks that are no fun. For example all production should be automatized - I hate how I have to order new batches of socks all the time. A great example of automation are the new beehives.

As it stands, I am unable to play Dwarf Fortress for long before I get bored. I know there are fun events, monsters, sieges, accidents etc. waiting for me. I just don't have the will to slog through all the boring tasks to get to them any more.
Logged
Yours,
Markus Cz. Clasplashes
Pages: 1 ... 107 108 [109] 110 111 ... 137