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Author Topic: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?  (Read 1917 times)

MC

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Re: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2020, 09:53:53 am »

"Regardless of population" technically is correct. The trigger only controls already crazed werebeasts being summoned onto your map a la megabeasts. Attacks from other sources, such as visitors/migrants/random NPCs on the map who just happen to have been infected in worldgen are unaffected by it. I don't know if that's intentional or not but you can 100% be attacked by werebeasts before even the first migrant wave happens. You can sorta prevent that by not opening any locations to the public until you're prepared, and one thing a lot of people don't seem to know is that building destroyers (werebeasts specifically) are horribly bugged and very easy to stop with regular old locked doors (just leave the door unlocked until they're about to go through then lock it in their face and their pathing breaks. Or just make it impossible to get out of your tavern without having to go through the bottom of a hatch cover.).

That said I don't think the fact that the same few exploits that trivialize literally every other threat in the game work against them is a good enough reason to say that werebeasts aren't overtuned ATM. I think it's fair to say that werebeasts are a more real threat that just about everything else you can randomly encounter short of like, a flying steel blob with dust/webbing related to death and nightmares showing up
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Carpecanum

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Re: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2020, 02:38:55 pm »

LOL.  It just got worse.  You don't get a warning if somebody is visiting, just a note.  So a visitor walked right up and then changed into a were-giraffe.  No "Now you know why you fear the night" just a bunch of dead dwarves. 
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BoogieMan

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Re: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2020, 05:32:56 pm »

That seemed to be the case for me as well. I disabled Vampires and Werebeasts in my current world and it's still early but so far instead I've been attacked by:

Year 2: Cyclops
Year 3: Goblin Siege and a Roc by summer. That Roc massacred a bunch of livestock before the military took it down. Now we'll feast for months.
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mross

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Re: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2020, 05:49:33 pm »

I just set night creatures to zero and only embark on tundra or glacier now, and immediately wall off the entrance as soon as the game starts, only deconstructing one tile to let migrants in if I need them. Weird that toady put in all these features dealing with other civs and then made them completely unnecessary.
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Thisfox

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Re: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2020, 09:30:37 pm »

Weird that toady put in all these features dealing with other civs and then made them completely unnecessary.

Unneccessary =/= unfun.

You could just bring a lot of food and a weapon each, and let your dorfs chill on the surface with no jobs, training their fighting skills. But it's more fun to dig and make a fort.
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mross

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Re: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2020, 08:25:08 am »

Weird that toady put in all these features dealing with other civs and then made them completely unnecessary.

Unneccessary =/= unfun.

You could just bring a lot of food and a weapon each, and let your dorfs chill on the surface with no jobs, training their fighting skills. But it's more fun to dig and make a fort.
Do not make excuses for bad design.
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Thisfox

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Re: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2020, 10:00:53 pm »

Weird that toady put in all these features dealing with other civs and then made them completely unnecessary.
Unneccessary =/= unfun.
You could just bring a lot of food and a weapon each, and let your dorfs chill on the surface with no jobs, training their fighting skills. But it's more fun to dig and make a fort.
Do not make excuses for bad design.
...wow.

Nah, I don't see it as bad design. This game we all love is meant to be a medium for story making, and the civ stuff makes stories. Good ones. That makes this good design by definition: it does what it set out to do.
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Mules gotta spleen. Dwarfs gotta eat.
Thisfox likes aquifers, olivine, Forgotten Beasts for their imagination, & dorfs for their stupidity. She prefers to consume gin & tonic. She absolutely detests Facebook.
"Urist McMason died out of pure spite to make you wonder why he was suddenly dead"
Oh god... Plump Helmet Man Mimes!

PatrikLundell

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Re: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2020, 05:42:19 am »

It's rather odd to claim that a sandbox game that provides a lot of toys to play with but doesn't force the player to use the toys is bad design.
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Garfunkel

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Re: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2020, 02:36:04 pm »

I understand him being salty. God knows I was salty after losing the third fort in a row to werecreatures. But I learned.

Mrross, implement an airlock system to your fort. Do not let immigrants or visitors inside your fort until the next full moon has passed. Wiki has the dates. Don't let your dwarves go outside.

Get a military squad in metal armour as quickly as possible. Even copper will stop most bites and scratches. Pay close attention to the combat reports and if a dwarf gets bitten and/or scratched, give them a suitable nickname. I prefer "BITTEN!!!" to make sure it's impossible to miss. Then after the combat, I wall everyone with that nickname inside and wait until next full moon to see what happens. If they turn, they get to stay inside the walls. If they don't turn, they can rejoin the fortress.

And of course, you can always use DFHack to kill them or edit the init file to prevent their existence in the first place. No reason to STILL be salty about it and type up thinly veiled insults to Toady here.
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Splint

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Re: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2020, 11:06:14 pm »

I understand him being salty. God knows I was salty after losing the third fort in a row to werecreatures. But I learned.

What I learned is to jack up embark points slightly to bring weapons and armor as a precaution. For the longest time I found myself equally butthurt over them, though I personally turned werecreatures off cause until we got settings to control them a bit relatively recently, since there was literally no rhyme or reason to their attacks or when they'd come as far as the average player was concerned far as I could tell.

Quote
Get a military squad in metal armour as quickly as possible. Even copper will stop most bites and scratches. Pay close attention to the combat reports and if a dwarf gets bitten and/or scratched, give them a suitable nickname. I prefer "BITTEN!!!" to make sure it's impossible to miss. Then after the combat, I wall everyone with that nickname inside and wait until next full moon to see what happens. If they turn, they get to stay inside the walls. If they don't turn, they can rejoin the fortress.

Scratches don't transfer the curse (though more often than not a scratch is perfectly able to just tear limbs off cause of how big they tend to be compared to a dwarf.) Nor does a shake, it's a bite that breaks the skin on initial contact - including bites that rip off limbs when they connect. Take it from someone who fights literally everything where possible with soldiers, never once had a guy turn from a scratch.

Getting limbs ripped off and them managing to survive on the other hand...

Loud Whispers

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Re: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2020, 02:59:25 pm »

Embrace the werelama

Ascend to woolly goodness

Pvt. Pirate

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Re: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2020, 01:40:38 pm »

Embrace the werelama

Ascend to woolly goodness
thx. now i'm trying to imagine dorfs trying to sheer a rampaging werellama, while wearing totally OP fullplate armour to not get bitten.
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mross

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Re: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2020, 07:07:11 pm »

It's rather odd to claim that a sandbox game that provides a lot of toys to play with but doesn't force the player to use the toys is bad design.
The werecreatures are objectively poorly designed.
I understand him being salty. God knows I was salty after losing the third fort in a row to werecreatures. But I learned.

Mrross, implement an airlock system to your fort. Do not let immigrants or visitors inside your fort until the next full moon has passed. Wiki has the dates. Don't let your dwarves go outside.

Get a military squad in metal armour as quickly as possible. Even copper will stop most bites and scratches. Pay close attention to the combat reports and if a dwarf gets bitten and/or scratched, give them a suitable nickname. I prefer "BITTEN!!!" to make sure it's impossible to miss. Then after the combat, I wall everyone with that nickname inside and wait until next full moon to see what happens. If they turn, they get to stay inside the walls. If they don't turn, they can rejoin the fortress.

And of course, you can always use DFHack to kill them or edit the init file to prevent their existence in the first place. No reason to STILL be salty about it and type up thinly veiled insults to Toady here.
Nah, I just wall myself off, underground farming trivializes everything. My insults to Toady remain correct. He's bad at designing games correctly.
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Bumber

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Re: Why does every single fort get attacked by werecreatures in the first year?
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2020, 08:38:27 pm »

Won't work once digging invaders are implemented.

Complaining about an unfinished sandbox game. ::)
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