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Author Topic: What is the correct Population Settings?  (Read 215 times)

Sanctume

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What is the correct Population Settings?
« on: December 06, 2019, 11:51:33 am »

Suppose I want to only have the 7 starting dwarfs. 
No migrants. 
But I want to allow the starting 7 to get married and make babies. 

I there there is pop cap setting, and "hard pop cap?". 

And child cap, child % cap. 

And visitor cap, and invader cap, invader beast cap.

But what is the setting to allow fortress population to grow via birth, but not grow via migrations?

Ulfarr

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Re: What is the correct Population Settings?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2019, 12:12:50 pm »

Fort's Pop < Pop cap -> both migrants and births
Pop cap < Fort's pop < Strict pop cap -> births only
Strict pop cap < Fort's pop -> no migrant, no births
Child %:  kids to adult ratio of some sort

Visitor cap: how many visitors can come at your fort (doesn't count those that have been given resident status). Setting visitors cap at 5+ seems to also allow visitor groups (mercenaries/performers) to spawn that can and will violate said cap (and your boose/food storage)
Invader cap: how many "sentient" enemies (goblins) can attack you
Invader beast Cap: How many beasts (trolls, ogres) they can bring.

I suggest using a pop cap of 15-20 to get the hardcoded migrant waves as it will increase your chances to get an already formed family. There is no guarantee that you'll get a breeding couple in your starting seven.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 01:40:52 pm by Ulfarr »
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vjek

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Re: What is the correct Population Settings?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2019, 01:26:24 pm »

Just verified this again , in 0.44.12..

If you set these values in \data\init\d_init.txt

[POPULATION_CAP:7]
[STRICT_POPULATION_CAP:7]

You'll get no migrants of any kind, presuming you always have at least  a population of 7.  You won't even get the 'hardcoded' initial migrant waves during the first year.
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Sanctume

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Re: What is the correct Population Settings?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2019, 01:46:17 pm »

Cool. 

So set
[POPULATION_CAP:7]
[STRICT_POPULATION_CAP:7]

New fort, Spring year 101. 

Save on Winter 101. 
Update
[POPULATION_CAP:7]
[STRICT_POPULATION_CAP:14]

Child 200:200 -- some number that can double the pop, and higher than pop cap to encourage births and hope the married couple has pregnancy. 

Save before Spring 102.
Update
[POPULATION_CAP:7]
[STRICT_POPULATION_CAP:x] where x is the starting 7 + new babies.

So this should stop migrants and still encourage births when updated on Winter 102?

vjek

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Re: What is the correct Population Settings?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2019, 01:59:21 pm »

Unfortunately(?), I only ever play with [BABY_CHILD_CAP:0:0] , so I can't comment on that part.  Should be easy enough to test, though.
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Ulfarr

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Re: What is the correct Population Settings?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2019, 02:24:00 pm »

Assuming you don't want to control how fast your population grows (so you don't trigger werebeasts/FB too soon etc.), you can set the [STRICT_POPULATION_CAP] from the start to whatever your end goal is. As long as your fort's population is at or above the [POPULATION_CAP] then you aren't going to receive any migrants.

PatrikLundell

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Re: What is the correct Population Settings?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2019, 06:14:58 pm »

As indicated, strict pop cap blocks conception (existing pregnancies are still carried through if the cap is lowered), so no migrants => pop cap 1 (allows for deaths, without them being replaced by migrants), and strict pop cap = your end value.
Note, though, that you're going to have trouble with only 7 dorfs because all the factors that block kid production:
- Gender balance
- The age restriction of max 10 years difference
- Sexual orientation
- Willing to commit to marriage
- Personality traits blocking marriage

I believe you need 2 breeding pairs to create a third generation (as siblings don't marry each other).

Of course, you can get around those restrictions by accepting petitions from visiting scholars and performers, but I've found getting married pairs of those (for multi racial fortresses) or unmarried, but willing to commit to hetero marriage (i.e. produce kids) ones within the age range requires Legends Mode info (which I get from yearly exports to Legends Viewer). However, if you're trying to breed dorfs that way you could just have accepted migrants.

I found the two waves you get with dead civs to give a decent base that usually (but not always!) allows for 3 pairs of parents, and you can actually get some work done (but still slowly!) with a 12-23 dorf crew.
I don't bother to change the child limits as the rate at which couples produce kids is the limiting factor (even if you send them back to the bedroom immediately after a kid has been born) in small fortresses.

You'll also need to adjust the siege limits to get any sieges within a reasonable time.
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Sanctume

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Re: What is the correct Population Settings?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2019, 06:27:19 pm »

I am somewhat aware of the 7 starting dwarfs for long-term gene-pool. 
However, I am thinking of 1 to 2 year embarks. 
Retire, then start a different conclave, similar to Bloodlines, but do not let the fam/kids migrate until 13th year or fort iteration. 

In a 16x16 "flat" local map, embark on 2x2's and eventually a 4x4 in the center. 

I've also managed to get the set-orientation script working. 

But I do not know if I want to force marriage and pregnancy via dfhack. 
I kinda like setting up marriage and honeymoon suites still. 

feelotraveller

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Re: What is the correct Population Settings?
« Reply #8 on: Today at 08:02:31 am »

I'd just leave it on the default settings except for POPULATION_CAP and set that to 1 as Patrik suggests.

In terms of the project it might be worth 'preparing carefully' and once at the pre-embark screen using Therapist to check out your starting dwarfs.  If there is not a good mix of appropriate genders and ages then back out and reroll until there is.  Could save a fair bit of hassle with unviable embarks. 

(I remember the game trolling me at one point when I want to do a  7 dwarf -> baby fort by throwing up a succession of bad mixes, giving me first 3 embarks of all one sex, then a couple more with 6/1 but the one being asexual or gay...   :'()
« Last Edit: Today at 08:09:34 am by feelotraveller »
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