Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 116 117 [118] 119 120 ... 370

Author Topic: Atheists  (Read 359731 times)

Pjoo

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1755 on: September 26, 2009, 01:01:59 pm »

Which very conveniently leads to "Whichever way the experiment goes, it's proof of God's existance".
Yeah... It's kinda problem with gods usually, they tend to change according to the argument...
Logged

Leafsnail

  • Bay Watcher
  • A single snail can make a world go extinct.
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1756 on: September 26, 2009, 01:05:09 pm »

Case in point: prayer related experiments.  Double blind trials to test if prayer is effective.  They tested, and guess what?  No effect (unless the Prayer Squad actually told someone they would be prayed for.  Then the person was actually more likely to die, as they felt they must be pretty far gone for the people to pray for them).  And yet some claimed this was evidence for the existance of God, since he wouldn't answer our prayers in such a petty way.  Now, imagine it had gone the other way, and prayer was shown to be super effective at healing.  Would the same people have said this was evidence again, or would they have seized onto it?
Logged

Vester

  • Bay Watcher
  • [T_WORD:AWE-INSPIRING:bloonk]
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1757 on: September 26, 2009, 01:08:57 pm »

There are prayer experiments? That seems self-defeating.

Also, just my two cents as a Catholic: prayers of supplication are selfish and by extension worthless.
Logged
Quote
"Land of song," said the warrior bard, "though all the world betray thee - one sword at least thy rights shall guard; one faithful harp shall praise thee."

Leafsnail

  • Bay Watcher
  • A single snail can make a world go extinct.
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1758 on: September 26, 2009, 01:15:48 pm »

It's selfish to pray that someone else who you don't know won't die during heart surgery?  That's what the experiment was based on.
Logged

Idiom

  • Bay Watcher
  • [NO_THOUGHT]
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1759 on: September 26, 2009, 05:55:55 pm »

Leafsnail I do recall a passage in the Bible that basically said "Don't test it" when referring to relying on God to intervene. I think the example in the Bible was jumping off a cliff and expected to be caught by an angel. Can't remember. It did say many times to pray for strength to carry on, which through faith (literally) people are granted on a daily basis.
Logged

Leafsnail

  • Bay Watcher
  • A single snail can make a world go extinct.
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1760 on: September 26, 2009, 05:59:32 pm »

Which very conveniently covers them when it turns out that praying does nothing.
Logged

Idiom

  • Bay Watcher
  • [NO_THOUGHT]
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1761 on: September 26, 2009, 06:01:20 pm »

Which very conveniently covers them when it turns out that praying does nothing.
Nothing tangible, mind you. It's the faith that keeps on giving... well faith and the strength that goes with it.
Logged

Leafsnail

  • Bay Watcher
  • A single snail can make a world go extinct.
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1762 on: September 26, 2009, 06:27:44 pm »

Faith is useless if it's not based in anything.  In some cases, it can be worse than useless.
Logged

RAM

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1763 on: September 26, 2009, 08:09:42 pm »

Im saying, trying to make up what this universe is about is important, and I should think what is likely and what is not, figure it out so it makes sense to me, but I cannot say I can ever have knowledge of certain things. So I can believe god is unlikely to exist, I cannot state it as fact, as it it based on my belief system, which consist of my ideologies, life stance, religion or lack of it, philosophies, basically my world view as whole, and I cannot say any of those are better than others, because most philosophies you pick to be likely for example, are based on what you believe represents the reality.
"but I cannot say I can ever have knowledge of certain things" "I cannot state it as fact" "and I cannot say any of those are better than others"
 are all " based on my belief system, which consist of my ideologies, life stance, religion or lack of it, philosophies, basically my world view as whole".
 I can't help but think that such an argument is pointless...
Logged
Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

Sergius

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1764 on: September 26, 2009, 08:38:52 pm »

That's one of the funny things about prayer. Never pray to get stuff or to get lucky... pray that "someone has a change of heart" or that "that fireman tries to rescue you from the raging fire". If they do, make sure to "thank god" very loudly, instead of said person.
Logged

Idiom

  • Bay Watcher
  • [NO_THOUGHT]
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1765 on: September 26, 2009, 08:57:07 pm »

Quote
Faith is useless if it's not based in anything.  In some cases, it can be worse than useless.
Yeah, people with no base to put their faith in get jack.
Logged

Neruz

  • Bay Watcher
  • I see you...
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1766 on: September 26, 2009, 09:05:17 pm »

Quote
Faith is useless if it's not based in anything.  In some cases, it can be worse than useless.
Yeah, people with no base to put their faith in get jack.
If they have a base to put their faith in then it's not faith.

RAM

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1767 on: September 27, 2009, 01:10:28 am »

I am sure I have heard dialogue in movies in which someone says that they have faith in another person...
Logged
Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!

Neruz

  • Bay Watcher
  • I see you...
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1768 on: September 27, 2009, 02:13:30 am »

Wouldn't be the first time a movie used incorrect language.

To have faith in something is to believe in it without evidence that your belief is correct. If you have evidence then you do not have faith in it, you just believe in it.

RAM

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Atheists
« Reply #1769 on: September 27, 2009, 02:19:54 am »

Fair enough, but you can have faith in some pretty mundane variables...

And I would argue that something can be believed by someone who is confident that it is impossible, it may not be a particularly sensible state of affairs, but humans are not sensible...
Logged
Vote (1) for the Urist scale!
I shall be eternally happy. I shall be able to construct elf hunting giant mecha. Which can pour magma.
Urist has been forced to use a friend as fertilizer lately.
Read the First Post!
Pages: 1 ... 116 117 [118] 119 120 ... 370