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Author Topic: LCS 3.19.4 Download - Let's Play Liberal Crime Squad  (Read 56151 times)

Zangi

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Re: LCS 3.19.4 Download - Let's Play Liberal Crime Squad
« Reply #555 on: September 04, 2009, 04:55:48 pm »

I personally would like to see more groups, so he is not alone in that regard. 

And yea, there have been a discussion or two about adding more groups with their own agendas in the past...
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G-Flex

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Re: LCS 3.19.4 Download - Let's Play Liberal Crime Squad
« Reply #556 on: September 04, 2009, 07:06:42 pm »

The SCS is basically supposed to be a template which can be used to create other groups. Eventually, there would be an organization of Ayn Randians added in too, meaning all four parts of the Nolan chart would have been fufilled.

LCS, from my perspective, is meant to satirize the kind of flawed political reasoning and partisanship that doesn't even ALLOW for something as complicated as a two-dimensional political ideology chart, and hardly even allows for any legitimate positions in the middle of a one-dimensional one. Your stereotypical American political thought (which, again, the game seems to work as a caricature of) isn't really that complex, and thinks in terms of "liberals" and "conservatives", not "economic liberals/conservatives" and "social liberal/conservatives" or whatever other marginally more complex scheme.

Quote
I view LCS not just as a satire of American politics, but also an satire of American extermist politics. I'll talk more later, but they are actual Commie parties in the US, they are just considered minor.

Of course, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you're going to satirize the kind of American politics that I'm talking about (which the game does), you have to take it for granted that, say, communists are conflated with liberals, and that fascists are conflated with conservatives. Introducing them as actual distinct entities breaks that sort of satirical construct, subverting the premise, since it's essentially changing the expected rules. While it CAN be funny for the game to subvert its own satirical premise, it's hard to do well, tends to muddle and confuse the sort of humor/satire the game is actually going for, and loses its impact when it's accepted as the default state of affairs.


I mean, sure, I'd like to see a game similar to LCS with all kinds of different extremist political organizations battling it out, but then it wouldn't be LCS anymore, and I mean that on a fairly fundamental level.
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E. Albright

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Re: LCS 3.19.4 Download - Let's Play Liberal Crime Squad
« Reply #557 on: September 05, 2009, 08:32:07 am »

In fact, I believe that either E. Albright or maniac (not sure whom) suggested the idea of the Leninist Crime Squad, which I later changed to the Stalinist Comrade Squad.

That would have been me. Sorta. If you follow the link to the old organization discussion in my prior post, you'll find my mention of the Leninists... however, I wasn't actually suggesting such an entity be added so much as using it as a random example of mapping a political outlook onto issues as portrayed in LCS. The idea was not so much to propose we end up with a bunch of crime squads, but to have interactive organizations that could affect some of the issues. Special interest groups, more or less; NRA, ACLU, and such. For the record, I never actually meant to propose an ocean of terrorist organizations tied to niche political outlooks.
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Servant Corps

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Re: LCS 3.19.4 Download - Let's Play Liberal Crime Squad
« Reply #558 on: September 05, 2009, 03:25:48 pm »

That would have been me. Sorta. If you follow the link to the old organization discussion in my prior post, you'll find my mention of the Leninists... however, I wasn't actually suggesting such an entity be added so much as using it as a random example of mapping a political outlook onto issues as portrayed in LCS. The idea was not so much to propose we end up with a bunch of crime squads, but to have interactive organizations that could affect some of the issues. Special interest groups, more or less; NRA, ACLU, and such. For the record, I never actually meant to propose an ocean of terrorist organizations tied to niche political outlooks.

Oh.

Originally, that was what this was supposed to be. I made a topic where I attempted to look at Puzzlemaker's Organization code and code stuff in there. It's been a long time, so I'm going to go and say what I can from memory, which might be faulty.

When Puzzlemaker created that code, he attempted to link it to sieges, so that if you upset an organization who is promoting an agenda, that organization will lay siege to you using certain Units.
So, essentially, Puzzlemaker envisioned that society is already composed of a variety of Organizations, just that most of the Organizations already coded into the game are Conservative, and thus enemies.

An example would be, say, Corporations. Corporations want to promote conservative policies that favor Corporations, and don't really care for anything else. I believe Puzzlemaker intended that, in the future, if you can find and shut down the Corporate HQ, then Corporations would be unable to promote its agenda until it rebuild itself (in much the same way that shutting down the AM Radio/Cable News Station leads to Conservative media being shut down, and thus stopping people from becoming more Conservative).

Corporations do not really care about you, and will leave you alone...UNTIL you strike first, for example, airing their dirty laundry (like now), or getting caught kidnapping their Arch-Conservative members (also...like now). When you do strike, Corporations retaliate, by laying siege to your safe house. You do have an incentive to strike first though, because if you do not, the Corporations will make society more conservative on certain economic issues.

But I don't really think most people would consider corporations to be the Corporate Crime Squad...even though they do have military units that can lay siege to your location (like the CCS), and a HQ that you can shut down. I think the main difference between a Crime Squad and other Organizations is that Crime Squads has to periodically engage in crime so as to engage in Political Activism, and its effectiveness is determined randomly. In fact, if the Crime Squad alienates a location, it can backfire!

Other organizations uses "peaceful means" for political activism, which may also have random effectiveness, but are less effective than violence and cannot backfire. I do believe most of these organizations need some sort of militia for "Self-Defense", like Corporate mercs defending Corporations. Otherwise, they would become just like the "Media" or other Sites, basically punching bags for the LCS. Basically, interaction has to be two-way, LCS should affect other Organizations, and other Organizations should affect LCS.

I don't know if I want "Liberal" special interest organizations, because it makes the LCS' job slightly easier (the LCS can hang back and let the special interests promote Liberalism while releasing Liberal Guardian issues to assist the Liberals). I do not think is good design. However, if Conservative organizations can lay siege to Liberal organizations, and thus disrupt Liberal organizations, then I would be okay with Liberal organizations. I don't know how to code that yet.
***
After learning that Puzzlemaker's code doesn't work, I sought to try a different method of creating Organizations, and therefore created the Stalinists, as a template for future organizations. I liked the Stalinists because it supports some Liberal laws and some Conservative laws, and thus, if I can get that sort of dualism coded in and working, I could create a variety of organizations, including the partisans ones that promote solely Liberal or Conservative issues.

Here's the system that I developed for the Stalinists:
--The Stalinist Comrade Squad has two military divisions: A Conservative Wing and a Liberal Wing. One division makes society more Liberal on certain issues by attacking certain Sites. In this way, society becomes more liberal. The other division makes society more Conservative on certain issues by attacking other Sites.
--The Stalinists has its own Media, the Union Gazette. Its programming is inspired by Cable News/AM Radio. If the people admire the Stalinists, then they read the Union Gazette, which causes them to be swayed little by little to Stalinist positions. Their positions on some issues will shift Liberal, and their positions on other issues will shift Conservative. The Union Gazette, because it directly affect the issues, can be very powerful.

Alternatively, if people hate the Stalinists, they will not read the Union Gazette. Therefore, the Stalinists cannot affect any issue. However, because they are still doing propaganda, they may slowly gain more popularity as a result of having that Gazette.
---If you find and publish certain documents revealing Stalinist wrongdoings, the Stalinists will be offended, and thus will dispatch military units. These units may ambush your units when you leave a location, and you have to defeat these units in order to survive. Soon, these units may even lay siege to your safehouse, and you have to escape from this siege.
---The Stalinists has a HQ, the Union Gazette. Shutting down the HQ shuts down the Stalinists forever.

And, um, I think that's about it really. So, really, if you don't want the Stalinists to be a crime squad, and rather have them just be a political party, you could just take out its random crimes that it conducts every month. But I still want the Stalinists to be able to defend itself, so that interaction is more than a one-way street.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 03:32:34 pm by Servant Corps »
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E. Albright

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Re: LCS 3.19.4 Download - Let's Play Liberal Crime Squad
« Reply #559 on: September 06, 2009, 07:17:30 am »

The Stalinists has its own Media, the Union Gazette.

Shouldn't that really be the New Pravda?  :P
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Servant Corps

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Re: LCS 3.19.4 Download - Let's Play Liberal Crime Squad
« Reply #560 on: September 06, 2009, 12:50:22 pm »

The Stalinists has its own Media, the Union Gazette.

Shouldn't that really be the New Pravda?  :P

Never listen to IRC. :P

Shouldn't be that hard to change. I still have to first release a working copy of this, um, Thingy, if we are no longer going to call it Liberal Crime Squad anymore.

EDIT:
Quote
3. The old branch that everyone's been working on has been deleted. If you're accessing the code, you should now work on /trunk/ if you want the relatively stable build, or /branches/stalin/ if you want the Stalinist build with less stability.

Apparently, Branches/stalin is still being modified, and most of the unstable Stalinist changes within that branch has been removed and normal. There is also no "/trunk" directory either. Just letting people know that if you want to work with Stalinist build, stick with "Revision 320" instead, because that's the latest change to the code that has stagnation's compiling within it.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 12:57:26 pm by Servant Corps »
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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: LCS 3.19.4 Download - Let's Play Liberal Crime Squad
« Reply #561 on: September 06, 2009, 01:02:33 pm »

EDIT:
Quote
3. The old branch that everyone's been working on has been deleted. If you're accessing the code, you should now work on /trunk/ if you want the relatively stable build, or /branches/stalin/ if you want the Stalinist build with less stability.

Apparently, Branches/stalin is still being modified, and most of the unstable Stalinist changes within that branch has been removed and normal. There is also no "/trunk" directory either. Just letting people know that if you want to work with Stalinist build, stick with "Revision 320" instead, because that's the latest change to the code that has stagnation's compiling within it.

Thanks, I swore under my breath when I verified that. Good grief, I'll try it get it working the way I said it would be.

Edit: I've brought the subversion directory structure under the knife a second time for corrective surgery. Let me know if it's still not working as advertised.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 01:31:57 pm by Jonathan S. Fox »
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