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[JoshuaFH]

Seeing as how I'm waiting for the Caravan Arc above any of the other arcs, since I love trading so much, I've been thinking of ways of making trading better. So I've come here, since my cluttering up of the Future of the Fortress thread is getting bothersome to some people.

So I've thought of these three things:

Advanced Ordering: Alright, let's say for example you're really... REALLY hurting for some Masterwork Steel Platemail. With advanced ordering, when you talk to a diplomat, you could negotiate not only for them to bring certain items, but a certain number of certain items with specific quality the next time they arrive. Now, because this is such a large demand, it'd be very reasonable for them to increase the price a good deal to go along with it. Couple with off-season arrivals (detailed below) this might equal a VERY expensive set of platemail.

Large Commodity Trading: There are alot of items that don't have quality levels, so I think it'd be prudent to group these into a special category: "Commodities". When negotiating purchases, there'd be two different screens, one for 'individual' items, or those with quality levels, and another for 'commodities' or those without. Caravans would NEVER carry commodities, but you'd be able to order them. In commodity trading, the items would have a set price (though it may fluctuate depending on supply and demand) and you can order as many as you like. You have to pay the cost of everything you order upfront, and once the caravan leaves, there'd be a series of other caravans that'd arrive all throughout the year with your commodity purchases, where they'd go to your depot, drop everything you bought, then immediately leave. The opposite would also be possible, with the ability to sell your commodities at set prices. When you sell (say, your huge stone supply) a number of hauling jobs to your trade depot would be queued, and your dwarves would carry the stone to your trade depot, where the constantly visiting wagons would then carry it away.

Off-Season Arrivals: While it's normal for the caravan to only come during one season of the year, I think it'd be useful to be able to talk with the caravan's diplomat and negotiate out an agreement where the caravan comes at different points of the year. This could be balanced by having them demand a fee, or having all their goods be a certain percentage more expensive.

What do you guys think?

[Foehamster]

The strongest thought that comes to my mind is:
1. Order tons of super-mega-ultra-Urist-Cacame expensive junk.
2. Take without paying.

Otherwise I very much like the idea of small wagons and pack animals appearing regularly at larger forts.  Perhaps this could be combined with the bazar idea and visitors might buy/trade with dwarven shops.

[JoshuaFH]

Of course, this would have to be combined with a better defense against theft from the wagons.

That, or some other way for the traders to enact retribution against the offending fort, like embargoes, absolute refusal to negotiate any further deals, or perhaps even offensive action proportional to how much much was stolen.

EDIT: That, and/or the diplomat demanding large fees upfront for accepting such requests, so even if you plan to steal from them, it'd still be at a loss.

[qoonpooka]

Large Commodity Trading: There are alot of items that don't have quality levels, so I think it'd be prudent to group these into a special category: "Commodities". When negotiating purchases, there'd be two different screens, one for 'individual' items, or those with quality levels, and another for 'commodities' or those without. Caravans would NEVER carry commodities, but you'd be able to order them. In commodity trading, the items would have a set price (though it may fluctuate depending on supply and demand) and you can order as many as you like. You have to pay the cost of everything you order upfront, and once the caravan leaves, there'd be a series of other caravans that'd arrive all throughout the year with your commodity purchases, where they'd go to your depot, drop everything you bought, then immediately leave. The opposite would also be possible, with the ability to sell your commodities at set prices. When you sell (say, your huge stone supply) a number of hauling jobs to your trade depot would be queued, and your dwarves would carry the stone to your trade depot, where the constantly visiting wagons would then carry it away.

This is pretty hot, right here.  Concerns about abuse are founded, but as you point out can be corrected for.  Changing the mechanics so that seizure of property results in demand for reparations or declaration of war - not to mention the caravan guards going hostile right then and there.  There's plenty of ways to make seizure expensive.

I really like the idea of both bulk shipping and intermittent departures and arrivals.  This makes sieges much more dangerous, as well. 

You could easily add to this a tithe system, which was rampant in feudal times (which DF clearly is).  The new fort should be paying tribute to the King's holdings - otherwise he wouldn't have sent you out in the first place, and/or would have conquered you by now.

[CobaltKobold]

Commodity trading: As many as I like? 5000 Black Diamonds, please.

Not really, but I think the point is made that not all non-quality should get that. Else, good suggestions (though, I'll just be happy when freelance traders decide to try to make the off-season journeys)

(Really, I'd use it to order a few hundred cobaltite, and that seems reasonable.)

[JoshuaFH]

Though really, the commodity trading part would be limited according to how much supply is in the world at that particular time. So like, a few hundred cobaltite would be more than possible, but thousands of diamonds wouldn't, but getting a fair number would be more than possible. I'm thinking that if it isn't practical to simulate the mining/woodcutting/etc of a resource, then the game will check to see if that civ has access to it at the beginning, and then have the civ produce so much every year, and have the price vary depending on how much is actually available.

Or something like that.

I'm glad you guys like my ideas, but qoonpooka, what are you talking about? Who's a bot?

[betamax]

I'd like to add that commodities should be traded for commodities - when you ask the diplomat for 200 cobaltite, he'll ask for, say, 50 bauxite in return, or perhaps this plus a "fee" which can be paid with normal trade goods.
This encourages the player to continue producing primary goods, and avoids buying tons of stone as a commodity, turning it all into masterwork crafts, only a few of which are needed to buy tons of stone, and so on, which exponentially increases a fortress's wealth.
In fact, with the current trade system it is too easy to do this anyway, so anything that stops it is a good thing. Perhaps if a caravan receives the same items from you year after year, the price of them drops dramatically?
"No, Urist McTrader - every man, woman, child and dog in the civilisation has a microcline amulet already, we don't need any more of that crap!"

[JoshuaFH]

Well, I already said that it would be preferable for prices to fluctuate based on supply and demand, so, to use your example, if you imported microcline to make microcline amulets, not only would the price of microcline amulets drop, but the price of the microcline your buying would increase, which would narrow and then completely nullify your profit margin.

So, I'm gonna have to disagree with the "trade commodities for commodities" idea.

Though, if currency is ever fixed, I'd like that to have a larger hand in trading as well.

[CobaltKobold]

I'm glad you guys like my ideas, but qoonpooka, what are you talking about? Who's a bot?

Who's a bot? Who's a little bot? Josh is! (No, actually, a spammer who got deleted out.)

And yeah, 'production rate' until we get site-resource tracking seems fine...except that that seems to require all the work of site-resource tracking:

• checking site's resources (already partly done)
  
• checking commonness of commodities at sites(not done)
  
• tracking some quantities for each commodity, per site (not done)
  

[qoonpooka]

I'm glad you guys like my ideas, but qoonpooka, what are you talking about? Who's a bot?

Mods got 'im.

[Lord Shonus]

Traders should also be able to have specific requests, such as three hundred masterwork spears, for which they will give you a large haul of gems, precious metals, or other valuables if you meet teh order.