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Author Topic: Attack Formula (from Toady)  (Read 14052 times)

Greiger

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Re: Attack Formula (from Toady)
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2009, 01:33:33 pm »

What is the effect of fighting with a two handed weapon and only using one hand for it.

Damage is halved after the other calculations are made.
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Raphite1

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Re: Attack Formula (from Toady)
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2009, 02:05:17 pm »

Quote
"At this point, if the attack is at 0, and a very hard roll is made against the skill-modified hit roll, there is a chance it gets raised to 1 regardless of all prior obstacles.  This in particular allows highly-skilled or lucky fighters to injure gigantic creatures."

    So, if my reading of the formula is correct, then there is a particular creature size at which a maximized dwarf (max weaponskill, max strength, masterwork adamantine weapon) no longer has a chance to inflict damage from the attack formula, but must instead make the above special roll for any chance to inflict damage.

     Does anyone care to take a shot at calculating what this "cutoff" creature size is? With/without special conditions like "berserking," or with steel rather than adamantine, would also be helpful.

     Finally, once this particular creature size is reached, what are the effects of additional creature size? I can only think of two, possibly three:
1) Amount of bones/meat/chunks from corpse.
2) Attack formula when fighting against similar-sized giant creatures.
[3) More creature "hit points?" Do DF creatures have hit points?]

MrLobster

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Re: Attack Formula (from Toady)
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2009, 05:41:58 am »

The overwhelming factor is weapon quality, so let's look at the other stuff first.

Strength is not capped, so technically there is no limit. We'd have to pick an arbitrary number. The ridiculous champions of Headshoots had Strength of about 20, so we could go with that.

The berserk and charging bonuses max at 5 and 4, and dwarf size is 6, so OTHER STUFF goes from 6 (normal non-Strong dwarf) to 35 (berserking, charging, insaneo-champion) at the extreme high end. Note that I'm adding in the dorf's size because we're assuming the creature is larger.

So, weapon quality. Let's assume a hammer (120), and increase quality and material at the same time:
Wood/silver/etc. Hammer = 120*0.5*1.0/10 = 6
Copper -Hammer- = 120*0.66*1.2/10 = 9
Bronze +Hammer+ = 120*0.75*1.4/10 = 12
Iron *Hammer* = 120*1.0*1.6/10 = 19
Steel ≡Hammer≡ = 120*1.33*1.8/10 = 28
Adamantine ☼Hammer☼ = 120*5.00*2.0/10 = 120

So our berserk, charging, Ultra-Mighty+15, adamantine ☼hammer☼-wielding dwarf will be unable to damage a (35+120) Size 155 creature through the normal damage formula.

Our normally Ultra-Mighty champion with a steel ≡hammer≡ will be unable to normally scratch a (11+28) size 39 creature. Dragons right now have size 24.
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Raphite1

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Re: Attack Formula (from Toady)
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2009, 02:15:07 pm »

The overwhelming factor is weapon quality, so let's look at the other stuff first.

Strength is not capped, so technically there is no limit. We'd have to pick an arbitrary number. The ridiculous champions of Headshoots had Strength of about 20, so we could go with that.

The berserk and charging bonuses max at 5 and 4, and dwarf size is 6, so OTHER STUFF goes from 6 (normal non-Strong dwarf) to 35 (berserking, charging, insaneo-champion) at the extreme high end. Note that I'm adding in the dorf's size because we're assuming the creature is larger.

So, weapon quality. Let's assume a hammer (120), and increase quality and material at the same time:
Wood/silver/etc. Hammer = 120*0.5*1.0/10 = 6
Copper -Hammer- = 120*0.66*1.2/10 = 9
Bronze +Hammer+ = 120*0.75*1.4/10 = 12
Iron *Hammer* = 120*1.0*1.6/10 = 19
Steel ≡Hammer≡ = 120*1.33*1.8/10 = 28
Adamantine ☼Hammer☼ = 120*5.00*2.0/10 = 120

So our berserk, charging, Ultra-Mighty+15, adamantine ☼hammer☼-wielding dwarf will be unable to damage a (35+120) Size 155 creature through the normal damage formula.

Our normally Ultra-Mighty champion with a steel ≡hammer≡ will be unable to normally scratch a (11+28) size 39 creature. Dragons right now have size 24.

Shouldn't the last one, the steel-wielding hammerer, be (35+28)? So the cutoff creature size for him to damage would be 63?

MrLobster

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Re: Attack Formula (from Toady)
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2009, 06:19:12 pm »

Right, the 11 is for the Strength 5, who is not charging and berserk (what I meant by "normal Ultra-mighty"). It's for a sort of average-y champion with a pretty good steel weapon. Meant more as a data point.
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Deon

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Re: Attack Formula (from Toady)
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2009, 09:15:13 pm »

I don't think that there's a cut-off size because strength keeps progressing more and more.
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Raphite1

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Re: Attack Formula (from Toady)
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2009, 09:49:10 pm »

Is weaponskill level in here somewhere? If so, I missed it.

Also, possible noob question: What exactly is "charging?"

Deon

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Re: Attack Formula (from Toady)
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2009, 11:25:43 pm »

There's a "strike" attack and "charge" attack which may knock you or your opponent down.

And skills are applied a bit differently, Toady said this. It looks like they are not in DAMAGE but in HIT/PARRY formulas only.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 11:27:22 pm by Deon »
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MrLobster

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Re: Attack Formula (from Toady)
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2009, 01:45:27 am »

I don't think that there's a cut-off size because strength keeps progressing more and more.
I did mention that... You could pick an insane Strength like 300 and safely assume that no dorf will ever get that high. The question is how low can you go with a high degree of confidence. I picked 20, maybe 30 would be better. *shrug*.
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Deon

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Re: Attack Formula (from Toady)
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2009, 03:38:47 am »

You can set up a script to throw stones at one place and go on vacation :D.
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