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Author Topic: Magic and Wizard Mode  (Read 2065 times)

Torak

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2008, 04:16:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by mutant mell:
<STRONG>If anyone has read the Belgariad, they will know what I'm going for in the magic system.</STRONG>

So it would be fatigue and stream based?

You conjure a windstorm! Beldin focuses his power with you!
A breeze blows from the east! Your power drains. You feel tired.
You collapse to the ground from exhaustion!
The fog has dissipated.

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penguinofhonor

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2008, 04:28:00 pm »

.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 10:30:23 pm by penguinofhonor »
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mutant mell

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2008, 10:08:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Torak:
<STRONG>

So it would be fatigue and stream based?

You conjure a windstorm! Beldin focuses his power with you!
A breeze blows from the east! Your power drains. You feel tired.
You collapse to the ground from exhaustion!
The fog has dissipated.</STRONG>


Yes, even though I didn't remember to post that in my earlier post.  I think having a fatigue-based system would be easier to implement, and much more interesting, and providing incentive to level things other than just magic.

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Sithlordz

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2008, 06:33:00 am »

I do indeed like this idea from the OP.  The zombie apocalypse idea especially, but we really don't need more flows. Our computers will go on strike.
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Helmaroc

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2008, 09:30:00 am »

ANOTHER magic suggestion...well, it's an O.K. idea...
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Red Jackard

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2008, 10:08:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Helmaroc:
<STRONG>ANOTHER magic suggestion...well, it's an O.K. idea...</STRONG>
Well I must admit it is not the typical "lol lets have magic, guys, magic" and is a bit interesting to read.
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beholder

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2008, 11:45:00 am »

somebody, (not sure who) mentioned an idea of a stream of magic from good to evil areas. I like this Idea, but isntead make it a cycle, good to evil, evil to good, with a larger "pool" of magic at each area. the person then said "but it wouldnt work because of purification of evil areas" i find this an interesting idea. Toady mentioned in one of his Devlogs, the idea that the more Megabeasts you kill,the more mundane the world becomes, the more you purify the evil areas, the less magic the world has. this could explain why the evil areas remain, because nobody wants the magic to go away. this wouldnt be irreversible, a new goblin tribe could slowly start magic again, possibly building first only in the evil area, thus giving the tribe a chance to grow in power. excellent idea? or should i offer it to the elven leaders?
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Relee

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2008, 09:44:00 am »

I'm glad to see some more positive responses. ^.^

Yeah I'm actually a computer programmer myself, and I often considered making a game similar to Dwarf Fortress, though not as detailed... But yeah, this is probably how I'd do magic. Naturally I'd test it first to see if it was actually any good.

I wish Dwarf Fortress was open source, I'd show you guys what I'm talking about. ^.^

But yeah, that's why my comments are more than just 'let's have magic'... I actually think about things like implementing magic in games a lot of the time. ^.^

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Captain Mayday

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2008, 10:25:00 am »

I agree with the OP that using Biomic methods to have varied magic strength would probably be the best idea.
Probably a magic user should also have a statistic that affects their ability to use magic, and the use of it should tire them.

How much a spell tires the caster should be based on a function involving the magic strength in the area and their magical prowess.

If each spell were also treated as a seperate skill (or school skill), this could also be an aspect of how much a spell tires them.

So long as you make the magical strength of an area a major contributing factor, this will force wizards to tend towards making their homes in magically strong areas.

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Rooster

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2008, 11:50:00 am »

captain mayday! You just reminded me of eragon (no offence and such)
In eragon(If you don't know its a book ^^) magic is very similar
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InquisitiveIdiot

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2008, 03:37:00 pm »

quote:
Magicka (which is the proper name for it)
If you're a little too into Morrowind or Wicca, yes.  Otherwise there is no "proper" name for magic.  Until the second half of the twentieth century, "Gods do it, or Nature, or spirits or something, fuck off, yeah?" was enough to explain away any amount of hoodoo.

For a system of magic that feels nearly scientific in outlook, I'd encourage you all to read C.S. Friedman's Coldfire trilogy.  She never explains the "how" of magic (otherwise it'd cease being magic, see), but I've never come across a better explanation of why magic bends to human will, and why all this hand-waving and spells and components and stuff is actually required.  It's also a very flow-based system, if that encourages you at all.

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Lazy_Perfectionist

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2008, 03:49:00 pm »

Hmm... From a thematic (not gameplay) perspective, I've always favored a more ritualistic form of magic. I don't like the idea of Dwarves casting magic missile at the darkness. I think of Dwarves either nonmagical, or using magic runes and prayers to summon divine smiting.

I guess this means that I'd like to see magic implementation vary dramatically by race.

Dwarves engrave magic circles and magic runes into items and rooms and weapons. Circles can easily be intentionally destroyed by raiders unless made of cast steel.

  • Circle of Water slowly (but unceasingly) generates water once complete.
  • Circle of Weakness all units in this area deal less damage. Early on you can use it to make training safer. Later on, you could make it out of more durable material and use it as part of your defense.
  • Circle of Rebirth. Put a corpse in there, and it raises as a zombie. Put a living but injured dwarf in there and they heal faster. Perhaps shaving years off their life?
  • Rune of Flame makes weapons and armor and booze barrels more resistant to fire if engraved once. If engraved twice, they burst into flame until the engraving is damaged.

Etc.

Elves would of course have nature magic. Their power would be dependent on familiars (trained kitties?) and their options would be considerable dependent on nature and biomes. They might be able to summon wild wolves to their defense, or shape trees and briars into a living, healing, but destructible wall capable of attacking intruders or perhaps it would be passable but hostile...

Goblins would have a very basic system of magic with limited but powerful effects. For instance, they might sacrifice dwarven babies (veal) to get favors from their demon/dragon gods. They might build up magic based on how much violence they commit, and then store that magic in totems, fetishes, charms and idols. A blood idol might give prisoners nightmares, but goblins happy dreams of bloodshed and slaughter. A elf skull totem would scare or enrage elves based on their personality, and also act as some sort of sentry or alarm system. A dwarf ear necklace might given them some symbolic benefit such as toughness based on how many they've added to their collection.

Humans? Maybe they'll be the standard wizards or whatnot with the magic concept outlined above, casting classic fireballs.

I'd imagine kobolds as a more primal shamanistic form of magic. I could imagine them summoning the spirits of their ancestors, or burning herbs to confuse their enemies or send themselves into berserk rages. A shaman's strength might be influenced by the number of their ancestors, though somehow limited so you don't end up with magic always getting more powerful as the game history goes on.

Anyways, those are my two cents on the subject. I'm not in any hurry to see magic implemented and I don't really care whether my ideas get any use or not. If i was programming the game or magic (which comes after interface, after all) arc was nearing, I might care some. But instead I'm throwing out the ideas so they have a chance to germinate and grow or die off, rather than rot in my brain.

In the end it all revolves around what sparks Toady One's vision, imagination, interest, and what he figures is a good investment of his time. As there's plenty of magic point magic or memorized spells in games today, I would be interested in seeing things head in a different direction, though I don't have a personal stake in the matter, and whatever option isn't likely to negatively impact my DF experience since the base gameplay is already solid, and I've enjoyed more typical magic systems. But there is a huge batch of fantasy literature concepts of magic vastly underutilized in games today, including the concept of ley lines and magic flows, but also focusing on the ritualistic and artifice and etc...

[ January 22, 2008: Message edited by: Lazy_Perfectionist ]

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jonnym

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2008, 04:11:00 pm »

GO kitty! use lighting bolt!

so awesome

i just hope it doesnt disolve in to simpley spell needs x magic power to ?use/make? should be deeper then that

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Hague

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2008, 04:18:00 pm »

Well, you could make a magic system that revolved around mana as a gatherable resource. That is, the general area has a certain amount of mana or heka, or chi or whatever (you could add an entity tag that changed the name of the magic energy to be race-specific) The mana is self-preserving and connected to the ecology of the area. Eventually if you drain too much mana from the area, trees won't grow as quickly, crops take longer to mature, animals can have miscarriages and so on. Eventually when you absorb too much mana you could be visited by some NPC group that despises your dangerous abuses to the ether and will siege and threaten you with a mana quota and so on.

The storage vessel is a bone of contention, however. I'd say that literally anything could be a storage vessel as long as it had a field for the data. That is, you could have statues or toys or weapons usable as mana-containers. Seems like it would be very impractical for adventure mode, however.

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Align

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Re: Magic and Wizard Mode
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2008, 05:25:00 pm »

The actual casting depends on what we really want. Ritual magic suits fortress mode perfectly, but magic missiles etc would give so many more options to adventurers.
Or it could indeed be different for each race as suggested above - humans would fit well with instant effect spells like fireballs and what have you (again, as suggested above) since human adventurers are so common, while still letting dwarven ritualists give themselves longer-lasting but tedious-to-cast magic effects (added speed? magic armor? ~~~)...

I'm liking that suggestion more and more.

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