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[Volatar]

18 here, started a couple years ago.

Amusingly, it seems there are quite a lot of us younger guys on here...

EDIT: After reading the whole thread, I was very right, but not the first to observe that.

EDIT CONTINUED: I play DF with the Mayday tileset. I had no problem playing the game in ASCII mode (I did so for a while before I ever discovered tilesets) but I found that having an easier to view UI allowed me to focus more on the game itself. Though, truthfully, I only bothered to look for tilesets in the first place because I was tired of looking at the seemingly "stretched" map, and wanted a square tileset.

EDIT CONTINUED: I love DF for, and praise it wholeheartedly for, its great gameplay. I love how it, by definition, throws off any thought of being simple enough for me to understand, and plows ahead with so much complexity. It is a challenge to my intelligence, and I love it

[Im_Sparks]

18 here, started a couple years ago.

Amusingly, it seems there are quite a lot of us younger guys on here...

EDIT: After reading the whole thread, I was very right, but not the first to observe that.

EDIT CONTINUED: I play DF with the Mayday tileset. I had no problem playing the game in ASCII mode (I did so for a while before I ever discovered tilesets) but I found that having an easier to view UI allowed me to focus more on the game itself. Though, truthfully, I only bothered to look for tilesets in the first place because I was tired of looking at the seemingly "stretched" map, and wanted a square tileset.

EDIT CONTINUED: I love DF for, and praise it wholeheartedly for, its great gameplay. I love how it, by definition, throws off any thought of being simple enough for me to understand, and plows ahead with so much complexity. It is a challenge to my intelligence, and I love it

Really? I use tilesets because the engravings drive me batshit crazy. I absolutely detest the vanilla engravings, so I use mike mayday and [ENGRAVINGS_START_OBSCURED:YES] or some tag like that in itit.

The thing is though, I don't see how DF is really a challenge to your intelligence. After about the third fort you realize what hooks up with what, place what where, and it is just more of a routine than anything.

[Puck]

The thing is though, I don't see how DF is really a challenge to your intelligence. After about the third fort you realize what hooks up with what, place what where, and it is just more of a routine than anything.

Simple. Intelligent people are trained in suffering. See Lisa Simpson phenomenon.

You need to be able to suffer to overcome the learning curve. Because the UI is a mild form of torture.

[Im_Sparks]

The thing is though, I don't see how DF is really a challenge to your intelligence. After about the third fort you realize what hooks up with what, place what where, and it is just more of a routine than anything.

Simple. Intelligent people are trained in suffering. See Lisa Simpson phenomenon.

You need to be able to suffer to overcome the learning curve. Because the UI is a mild form of torture.

Actually, once you memorize the keys like d-d for mining or b-w-z for a kitchen the game's UI becomes genius and simple. It's not torture, it's just memorization. People just like to dramatize the learning curve and tell themselves they're really smart for playing a tough game. Yes, it requires some competence, but once you get it you get it.

[Christes]

Yeah, once you get used to the UI, it's really no big deal.

However, I do think that the UI has filtered out a lot of the usual trash that accompanies video games online (But not all - look at the locked forum at the bottom of the forum index)

Of course, that's more a matter of filtering out laziness than stupidity

[ILikePie]

I'm 14,
I love 2d pixel graphics and prefer them over 3d graphics (I also think older games are way better than today's mess of 3d graphics and no gameplay what so ever games).
I started playing last year and have never used any graphical modifications (There some roguelikes I don't play because they use tiles only).

[Tormy]

I'm 14,
I love 2d pixel graphics and prefer them over 3d graphics (I also think older games are way better than today's mess of 3d graphics and no gameplay what so ever games).

This is respectable. 

[Im_Sparks]

I'm 14,
I love 2d pixel graphics and prefer them over 3d graphics (I also think older games are way better than today's mess of 3d graphics and no gameplay what so ever games).
I started playing last year and have never used any graphical modifications (There some roguelikes I don't play because they use tiles only).

Erm, why?
Alot of 3d games use great graphics, the whole reason they were invented is so as opposed to going "OH FUCK, LOOK OUT FOR THAT D!" you now go "OH FUCK, LOOK OUT FOR THAT DRAGON". I respect your decision but your reasoning is odd at best.

[ILikePie]

Thanks you two, I just think pixel graphics just look a lot nicer than 3d models. Sure, 3d models are amazing, but I like the look of those beautiful pixeled levels older games have. That aside, it seems devs didn't think to much when making their game, they just made it. Today, poeple think way to much about their games, they won't make another 'generic' RTS without adding some revolutionary gameplay features that usually screw the game up (Sometimes it turns out well, Men of War anyone?).
And finally, I dislike roguelikes with tiles because I don't like my dragons jumping around all over the place instead of nicely walking from tile to tile.

[ToonyMan]

Thanks you two, I just think pixel graphics just look a lot nicer than 3d models. Sure, 3d models are amazing, but I like the look of those beautiful pixeled levels older games have. That aside, it seems devs didn't think to much when making their game, they just made it. Today, poeple think way to much about their games, they won't make another 'generic' RTS without adding some revolutionary gameplay features that usually screw the game up (Sometimes it turns out well, Men of War anyone?).
And finally, I dislike roguelikes with tiles because I don't like my dragons jumping around all over the place instead of nicely walking from tile to tile.

I want what he's having!

[Tradanbattlan]

Thanks you two, I just think pixel graphics just look a lot nicer than 3d models. Sure, 3d models are amazing, but I like the look of those beautiful pixeled levels older games have. That aside, it seems devs didn't think to much when making their game, they just made it. Today, poeple think way to much about their games, they won't make another 'generic' RTS without adding some revolutionary gameplay features that usually screw the game up (Sometimes it turns out well, Men of War anyone?).
And finally, I dislike roguelikes with tiles because I don't like my dragons jumping around all over the place instead of nicely walking from tile to tile.

Can I live in your brain?
It seems like a nice place.

[Broose]

I have come to enjoy ASCII much more than other graphics. Honestly, I just think it looks neat.

[Volatar]

Erm, why?
Alot of 3d games use great graphics, the whole reason they were invented is so as opposed to going "OH FUCK, LOOK OUT FOR THAT D!" you now go "OH FUCK, LOOK OUT FOR THAT DRAGON". I respect your decision but your reasoning is odd at best.

The problem we face, is that developers are faced with a choice. They spend their time between the two primary areas, gameplay and graphics. Many modern, young gamers not only want better graphics, but literally express disdain at graphics mere years old, yet alone  2D! Developers are faced with a choice: Create good gameplay, yet fail in marketing and selling their game because their graphics are not good enough, or, conversely, create good graphics, recycle gameplay, and make millions of dollars. It is a bianary choice, and it is obvious that most developers pick the latter. Dwarf Fortress is unique because Toady picked the former. I love great gameplay, and graphics are merely a convenience in bringing across the experience.

It is also really similar to the argument between books and movies. I prefer books, many others prefer movies. I prefer my imagination to fill in the visuals, and enjoy the same in my games. Others prefer their visuals given to them.

Both types of games CAN coexist, yet the market does not seem to want our niche here right now. Eventually I think that may change, but for now, we can still play this great game.

[aklyatne]

I think that if DF ever goes 3D, it should display like the original Doom, but with clipping off.  And no animations - just upright letters moving about

[Dorten]

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