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Author Topic: supply chains  (Read 1654 times)

Mugros

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supply chains
« on: July 21, 2009, 05:35:30 am »

I just started my first fortress. Great game.
I have a question about supply chains. Is it possible to automate production without having to micromanage everything.
E.g. have a carpenter make 10 beds and stop if they are in stock? Because if i repeat this job the he will make beds until the wood runs out, right?
I think this will make managing production much easier.
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FellMoodFox

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Re: supply chains
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2009, 06:16:55 am »

You can use the Job Manager to set certain amounts, but not thresholds required.  j-m accesses the Job Manager window; q lets you create new orders, I believe.
So you can give a standing order to create 10 beds, but once ten beds are assembled in the carpenter's workshops, it'll complete the order.  However, this makes it proof against running out of materials - if you only have 9 logs, once the 9 are built, it'll continually try to put that 10th bed order into the workshop, giving you a reminder about needing wood logs every so often.
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Mugros

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Re: supply chains
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2009, 06:33:28 am »

That doesn't sound too bad. I didn't dive into the job manager right now. But i will use it when i come home and continue playing.
Still a little automated production depending on needs wouldn't hurt. Do you know if someone made a feature request about production up to a certain amount or until the raw supply reaches a critical level, e.g. keep 20 beds in stock but don't make more when wood drops to 10?
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blah28722

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Re: supply chains
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2009, 06:39:55 am »

That doesn't sound too bad. I didn't dive into the job manager right now. But i will use it when i come home and continue playing.
Still a little automated production depending on needs wouldn't hurt. Do you know if someone made a feature request about production up to a certain amount or until the raw supply reaches a critical level, e.g. keep 20 beds in stock but don't make more when wood drops to 10?


You could simply forbid 10 logs for "emergencies".

You'd have just keep an eye on bed levels.
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Mugros

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Re: supply chains
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2009, 07:07:41 am »

Sure, but my whole point was to reduce the micro managing, not increase it  ;D
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Rowanas

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Re: supply chains
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2009, 07:54:40 am »

It's a nice idea, because I always like to have 10-20 beds saved for migrant waves. As it is, I have about 50, so I won't need to construct anymore for migrants :D
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Mugros

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Re: supply chains
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2009, 09:05:41 am »

The beds were just an example.
I just think these kind of production rules make things a lot easier in these kind of games.
E.g i would like to be able to tell the wood cutter that i always want 20 wood in stock. This way i don't need to designate trees to be chopped off. OK, this could be combined, so that the wood cutter has an area he goes to cut wood. Then there should be the carpenter who should see that there are 5 beds in stock unless there is less than 10 wood. This way i will always have some spare beds and wood and i can concentrate on building and other things.
But having to designate trees every time i need wood feels needlessly laborious to me. I know that this games tries to simulate a lot of details, but all these details will be ultimately managed by the player and this is simply overwhelming after some time. At least, that's my impression.
Unless i am more accustomed to the game i always fear that e.g. i would loose all my seeds after i turned on cooking, or simply that i will deplete all of my resources on a single task because of a careless setting.
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Jhoosier

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Re: supply chains
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2009, 10:30:14 am »

You might post this in suggestions, although I'm sure somebody has by now.  It's a good idea, but adds another level of complexity to an already incredibly complex game.  Would you set it for all wood, for one workshop, for just the workers?  And where would the menu for this be placed?  It adds several levels of complexity, especially if you have to do this for beds, doors, statues, floodgates, blocks, armor stands, weapon racks, and so on, all made out of different materials.  Beds are easy because they're only wood.  How would you do this with rock doors?  I don't think I'd want my masons to produce doors until only 10 rock was left.
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Shrike

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Re: supply chains
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2009, 05:47:04 pm »

Sure, but my whole point was to reduce the micro managing, not increase it  ;D


I'm afraid to be the one to say it... but this is Dwarf Fortress. It is entirely micromanagement.

You can select areas to cut down trees in, and the woodcutter will do so until there are no more trees to harvest or there is insufficient stockpile space to store them. Any time a spot opens in the stockpile (as beds get made, for example), a dwarf will run out, grab the wood, and put it into place.


Honestly, a lot of management issues can be resolved by having large stockpiles for wood, bone/shell and so on. Just keep more than you need, and set secondary stockpiles up if you REALLY have a huge backlog(of log), and set the primary stockpile (by the carpenter) to take from the secondary piles. Then, the dwarves will automatically fill the primary with the secondary, if possible.


Fortunately, some tasks (collecting silk, tanning hides, weaving cloth from thread), default to fully automated processes, and you can put some tasks, (making rock blocks) on repeat without actually causing problems. Rock blocks are very useful for construction and training masons.

The job manager lets you make up to 30 things at a time, and the tasks will automatically queue up at the appropriate stations, so rather than jumping to your forge whenever the baron threatens to have someone killed if he doesn't get his lead thingy, j->m->q->lead gob->enter->1->enter will get the twit his precious thingamabobs, and hopefully lead poisoning.

It's not so bad when you get used to it, but improvements are certainly possible.
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Smew

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Re: supply chains
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2009, 06:29:58 pm »

What Shrike said, I'd rather this game not go any closer to a fully automated process myself.
That being said, it looks like everybody has covered your question, so I guess this was just a post for me.  ;D

Hyndis

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Re: supply chains
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2009, 06:43:14 pm »

Micromanagement issues are solved by massive, massive overkill.

Worried about not having enough beds on hand? Easy! Order 200 of them to be made. And build grand living quarters for 200 dwarves, with masterwork engravings of dwarves eating cheese.

 :D
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Granite26

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Re: supply chains
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2009, 09:47:16 am »

Micromanagement issues are solved by massive, massive overkill.

Worried about not having enough beds on hand? Easy! Order 200 of them to be made. And build grand living quarters for 200 dwarves, with masterwork engravings of dwarves eating cheese.

 :D

Pretty much this...  Why would you wait until you needed something in order to make it?  As far as beds go, I make way over 200 rooms, in order for all dwarves to settle into the right price range without me having to micro that.  Build 20-30 buckets early on, and never think about them again (dyers, the injured and wells?  no problem)

Just mine out a level down, and fill it with huge stockpiles.  Even better yet, turn your old ore veins into stockpiles for long term storage.

Mugros

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Re: supply chains
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2009, 11:30:28 am »

I'm afraid to be the one to say it... but this is Dwarf Fortress. It is entirely micromanagement.

You can select areas to cut down trees in, and the woodcutter will do so until there are no more trees to harvest or there is insufficient stockpile space to store them. Any time a spot opens in the stockpile (as beds get made, for example), a dwarf will run out, grab the wood, and put it into place.


Honestly, a lot of management issues can be resolved by having large stockpiles for wood, bone/shell and so on. Just keep more than you need, and set secondary stockpiles up if you REALLY have a huge backlog(of log), and set the primary stockpile (by the carpenter) to take from the secondary piles. Then, the dwarves will automatically fill the primary with the secondary, if possible.


Fortunately, some tasks (collecting silk, tanning hides, weaving cloth from thread), default to fully automated processes, and you can put some tasks, (making rock blocks) on repeat without actually causing problems. Rock blocks are very useful for construction and training masons.

The job manager lets you make up to 30 things at a time, and the tasks will automatically queue up at the appropriate stations, so rather than jumping to your forge whenever the baron threatens to have someone killed if he doesn't get his lead thingy, j->m->q->lead gob->enter->1->enter will get the twit his precious thingamabobs, and hopefully lead poisoning.

It's not so bad when you get used to it, but improvements are certainly possible.
Yet Standing Production Orders are on place 2 of the DF Eternal Suggestion Voting.
Now that i know the job manager it made some things easier, still the 30 units limit is ridiculous. 30 booze? How long will that last? OK, just set the brewer to repeat... job cancelled for reason x or y... great.
Or what is uncut gemstone good for? Just cut them. ... Oh i have to set every type of gemstone separately?  :-\ Encrust.... again, for every type separately...  :-\ It would be so much easier to set the workers on autopilot and just have a menu to specify what can be cut, maybe up to which amount.
Right now my fortress feels more like an ant hill. The AI is practically a glorified path finding mechanism plus some random actions. But even then, an ant hill works better because the world is not so complex for ants and they a set of rules which makes them tick. The Dwarves are mostly just dumb.  ;D
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lordcooper

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Re: supply chains
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2009, 11:35:33 am »

Right now my fortress feels more like an ant hill. The AI is practically a glorified path finding mechanism plus some random actions. But even then, an ant hill works better because the world is not so complex for ants and they a set of rules which makes them tick. The Dwarves are mostly just dumb.  ;D

In my opinion, that is the entire POINT
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Granite26

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Re: supply chains
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2009, 11:49:01 am »

You need uncut gems for moods