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Author Topic: Religious Archetypes  (Read 9539 times)

Felblood

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Re: Religious Archetypes
« Reply #75 on: July 30, 2009, 02:18:58 am »

Why would you worship or even pretend the second group exists if you have the first group of gods that actually talk back when you pray? I think people would demand a little more proof from new religions if the old ones had some

It depends on the gods and the worshipers.

One could be extremely dedicated to a particular ideal that none of the manifest gods advocates, and declare one of the rumored, silent gods as their patron. The active gods might not even mind, depending on how jealously they pursue worship.

The manifest gods might even talk about the silent gods. Zeus could brag about how he sealed the primal Titans away, before the creation of the world as we know it, or the pantheon could openly acknowledge that there where other gods, who helped create the world, but are uninterested in the prayers of mortals (Why someone would bother worshipping these beings could just be a matter of foolishness, or something deeper).

Others might come thirsty for the promise of power that the cult leader promises to those who learn the secrets of the gods of Outside, and willing to tempt the wrath of the gods of Earth to find it?

Then there's the simple fact that familiarity breeds contempt. Look at the greek pantheon. A lot of people, particularly those with very strict moral principals, would find Zeus a difficult man to respect, once they got to know him. What kind of physical incarnation of justice cheats on his wife, anyway?

If there is a single, active, obvious, unified pantheon, that fulfills the spiritual needs of everyone on the planet. No new religions or philosophies should be invented, as no one is going to be discontent enough with the current system to create something new.

However, that strikes me as being a pretty rare arrangement, the discontentment of people, and their exploratory natures being what they are.

Even on a world with universally active, objectively verifiable gods, that constantly correct any false doctrines, crazies and shysters will crop up preaching falsehoods. The gods would smite them for their lies, and draw their followers back into the fold (or simply destroy them, too) and that would be the end of it, but it would still be a pretty interesting thing to have happen in your fortress.

The other possibilities generally offer more verisimilitude, but the static nature of this arrangement would be nice for players who don't want the complexity of the other options, but still want an extra dose of the fantastic.

Customization adds a dimension here that brings something to everyone.
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The path through the wilderness is rarely direct. Reaching the destination is useless,
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--but you do have to keep walking.

Granite26

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Re: Religious Archetypes
« Reply #76 on: July 30, 2009, 08:51:16 am »

Even on a world with universally active, objectively verifiable gods, that constantly correct any false doctrines, crazies and shysters will crop up preaching falsehoods. The gods would smite them for their lies, and draw their followers back into the fold (or simply destroy them, too) and that would be the end of it, but it would still be a pretty interesting thing to have happen in your fortress.

Especially since Gods operate on a slower time scale.  Imagine finding out 20 years into your fort that Armok HATES blood sacrifice of cats, and sending plagues to correct you.

Timst

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Re: Religious Archetypes
« Reply #77 on: July 30, 2009, 02:39:11 pm »

As someone said, it would be nice to adjust the religion in the fortress by the player's activities.

The more the player support [a particular] religion (by building altars, allowing ceremonies, etc.), the bigger it become, ultimately leading to a full religious fortress, where the word of god (or the one of the main priest) will control everything in the fortress (well, not everything of course, but a lot of the social lives of the dwarves).

Or...

The less the player support [a particular] religion (by forbidding religious items, dispersing prayers etc.), the less the religion is present inside the fortress, ultimately leading to it's destruction, or to a totally atheist fort if applied to every religion.

Yes, that's not realistic. Especially the second part. In reality, the followers of the religion will probably hide to pray, create clandestine movements etc. But it seems a handy way to adjust religion in the fortress according to how you want it.

Felblood

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Re: Religious Archetypes
« Reply #78 on: July 30, 2009, 03:04:21 pm »

I don't think it would be possible to eradicate 100% of all religions just by persecuting them. If dwarves can figure out they're being discriminated against (or even just develop delusions to that effect) it should make them get really stubborn.

While a simple support = growth metric might be intuitive, and  controllable, I don't think it's deep enough to be really rewarding.

Besides, if you want to stamp out a religion, just route water/magma/goblins through the bedchambers of all it's members, or build their temple hanging over a chasm by a narrow bridge.

I'd be extra neat if an eradicated cult could leave behind literature, through which they could draw adherents, even after it had no living members. You gotta burn the heretic, and his books, to be a real totalitarian.
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The path through the wilderness is rarely direct. Reaching the destination is useless,
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Granite26

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Re: Religious Archetypes
« Reply #79 on: July 30, 2009, 03:12:03 pm »

Yeah... if you want to FORCE an atheist world (or whatever), the correct place is in the raws.  (Especially assuming the variable metaphysics)

Felblood

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Re: Religious Archetypes
« Reply #80 on: July 30, 2009, 11:00:11 pm »

Yeah... if you want to FORCE an atheist world (or whatever), the correct place is in the raws.  (Especially assuming the variable metaphysics)
QFT
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The path through the wilderness is rarely direct. Reaching the destination is useless,
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--but you do have to keep walking.

Sabre_Justice

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Re: Religious Archetypes
« Reply #81 on: July 31, 2009, 06:38:03 am »

Either that or wipe out religion in-game by any means necessary.

I was going to suggest some more solid religion-related ideas- such as temple designations for buildings, Altar constructions, and a High Priest noble who demands a particularly fancy temple. (btw, I think 'temple' might be the best word, it's pretty much a catch-all for a place of worship regardless of religion)

I like the idea of different religions having different preferences, rituals and taboos. Sacrifice might be an interesting concept, especially if a god, priest or High Priest demands certain types of sacrifices (animals, goblins, dwarves, elves...). Of course, these should have an in-game reward of some kind as well as an inevitable penalty, might as well give the dwarves a break for a change.
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Granite26

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Re: Religious Archetypes
« Reply #82 on: July 31, 2009, 08:25:21 am »

Sabre_Justice:  Try the thread linked in the top... it's got a lot of that information in it.  (Specifically mechanics of how religion works IN a fort)
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