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Author Topic: Aquifer piercing  (Read 11805 times)

ChairmanPoo

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Aquifer piercing
« on: July 24, 2009, 05:02:45 am »

So, I have embarked in a location, which supposedly has an underground river and "Other Features". However, in the middle there is a big aquifer layer.

so, how do I pierce it? Do I have a realistic chance of finding a gap in it? And, in what ways can you pierce aquifers? Could I drain them mechanically and build walls around them? Or will I have to keep draining (and hence need to resort to complicated perpetual movement machines)?
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cerapa

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Re: Aquifer piercing
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2009, 05:23:36 am »

You can use a cave in.
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Jimmy

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Re: Aquifer piercing
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2009, 05:30:33 am »

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Danarca

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Re: Aquifer piercing
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2009, 05:58:38 am »

easier way.

Dig down to you reach the layer with the Aquifer layer, channel it out, then cave in the solid material above, by channeling around that.
Code: [Select]
█ = channel
. = walkable space
  = Solid
J = down staircase
X = up/down staircase
U = up starcase
w = water
Top layer
 .............
..███████████.
..█ ........█.
J.X.........█.
..█.........█.
..███████████.
 .............
Middle layer(s) non-aquifer.
 .............
 .███████████.
 .█         █.
X.█         █.
 .█         █.
 .███████████.
 .............
Lowest level. (water is one level below.)
 .............
 .wwwwwwwwwww.
 .wwwwwwwwwww.
u.wwwwwwwwwww.
 .wwwwwwwwwww.
 .wwwwwwwwwww.
 .............


X = dig here as the last thing to crash the non-aquifer into the aquiferlevel, you can dig down.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Aquifer piercing
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2009, 07:34:59 am »

At the moment I'm sort of managing with the pump out + smooth method. "Sort of" because my thralls dug into and through the second aquifer level before I had fully secured the first, so three drowned. But this sort of works, if in an ellaborate and risky way. It works mostly because it is a stone aquifer, of course (doing this in a sand aquifer would be harder in some respects and easier in others. I think I might manage it with walls).
I dug some holes IŽll have to patch with grates first, though. That's what killed my three dudes. They fall into the water, get stunned, and drown.
EDIT:" Ablel kaddasitah, gem setter, has drowned."  OOPS, there goes another one.

Pic sort of related
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think I might favor the ice method, but requires doing it in the open, and despite my haunted location for some reason does NOT have undead (I have some inner suspicion that all of them are spawned in the underground river), I AM harrased in winter by dark gnomes, which are pathetic, but enough to scare my workers away, and I am not about to dedicate part of my workforce for defense. If only that glassmaker hadnt gone berserk and killed two of my war dogs :/...

« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 07:43:42 am by ChairmanPoo »
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Brodiggan

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Re: Aquifer piercing
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2009, 10:14:06 am »

!WARNING! Mistakes were found in this arrangement, I'm revising it and posting an updated version on page 2, please do not use this version for piercing multiple aquifers. All mistakes were my own, and all credit is due Tanelorn for the original idea on how to pierce multiple aquifer layers in a minimal amount of space.

It's possible to drill down through any number of aquifer layers, if you're careful, without needing any extra space on each level. You'll need some wood and glass if you have access to it, to make mechanisms. Without glass, you'll need at least enough stone to make the mechanisms for four screw pumps and (possibly) some gears. To begin with, I should say this idea isn't mine, I tweaked it a bit to make it work for what I needed, but the basic idea came from someone else (unfortunately I can't remember who it was, or I'd give credit where credit is due). (Edit: Found it, the original idea came from Tanelorn.)

X = up/down stairway
H = Channel
* = Gearbox
@> = pump, with water pumping in the direction of the arrow/caret
- | = horizontal axles
WWW = water wheel
. = empty square
o = Damp Stone
~ = Water filled square
To start with you need to cut a stairway down into the aquifer, then channel out the a square on each side of the stairway from above, like this...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

These four channels will allow you to pump out water from around the stairs, giving your miners a place to stand while working on the aquifer level. Before you get to that though, you need a place to pump the water to, and a power source. The way I usually do it is to place the pumps like this...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Then cut a channel in front of each pump, allowing the water to drop back into the aquifer.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now you just need a power source, I attach one waterwheel to each pump, and use the flow of the aquifer into the drainage channels to run the wheels, which, admittedly, is a bit excessive dwarfish, but the extra power can be useful running whatever you need later on, and it saves on gearboxes, which depending on what sort of terrain you have access to, may be hard to manufacture.

I usually lay them out like this...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

When you're ready to go, just channel out the tile separating each water wheel from the pumps drainage channel, like so.


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If one of the pumps doesn't quite kick in, just run it manually for a few cycles, once the whole system is going the waterwheels should keep moving on their own.

Ok, deep breath. So the setup is a bit complex, but once you have your waterwheels in place, you can start drilling. Please be sure to save first! I haven't lost a miner doing this, yet, and if you do each step exactly this way you shouldn't either, but it's seemed close a few times, so be careful about it.

Once you're ready to start drilling, drop down to the aquifer level, and you'll see this...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The tiles just on either side of the stairs might have 1-3 water in them, and will fluctuate around there as the pumps above drain the water coming in from the aquifer away, but they should be safe to work on. If you didn't use an up/down stairway, cut a down stairway now to get a look at the next level. Every aquifer level you cut through will be the same, except the last one. On the last level you just need to wall in the 4 squares next to the stairs and then continue down at least one level before you cut out to the sides. If you don't notice you're on the last aquifer level you may inadvertently flood the level below, making it more difficult to proceed, so always check first.

Assuming there is another aquifer layer below, begin by channeling eight tiles away, as follows:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now dig out the 4 tiles that are diagonal from the stairs, like so..


Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And channel out 4 more tiles, extending the trenches you've already dug like so...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now this next part seems to be the mildly dangerous one. One at a time, digg out the 4 remaining tiles bordering the central stairs area. This will give you access to the square immediately below where each pump drains, so go ahead and cut a channel down to the next aquifer layer, when you're done, you should have this.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You'll get a rush of water each time, and if you have multiple miners working below one may be accidentally swept into the aquifer, so take your time and do each tile individually. Once you have the channels cut though, the center section should no longer be receiving water from the aquifer, since aquifer tiles don't fill nearby tiles with water diagonally.

To pierce another aquifer level, just disassemble the pumps above, cut a channel through the floor at the end of each axle, then build 4 gearboxes over the channels, and reassemble the pumps on the first aquifer level. With the pumps in place on the aquifer level just channel out the 4 tiles around the stairs, feeding the pumps. When you're done, you should have the following...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

From there, just repeat everything one level down. You'll need to add a vertical axle for each pump if you have more than two aquifer levels to punch through.

Again.. on the last aquifer level, just wall in the 4 squares around the stairs and leave at least one dry level between you and the aquifer.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2009, 02:56:11 pm by Brodiggan »
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Aquifer piercing
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2009, 10:47:07 am »

actually, I managed to pierce the double aquifer by the traditional method.

TBH, I think that all dwarf fortress problem solving falls either on the "Rube Goldberg" method, or the "pharaonic" one.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 10:49:17 am by ChairmanPoo »
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decius

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Re: Aquifer piercing
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2009, 10:58:45 am »

actually, I managed to pierce the double aquifer by the traditional method.

TBH, I think that all dwarf fortress problem solving falls either on the "Rube Goldberg" method, or the "pharaonic" one.

"Traditional method" Did you mean cave-ins? You didn't mention that you had magma, which is the "traditional" way of doing something.

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Starver

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Re: Aquifer piercing
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2009, 11:35:18 am »

I have a fort where my flux-stone areas (or at least all those currently discovered) have a 1:1 relationship with my aquifer, on one layer.  The only 'overspill' is where a vein dives in or out of the flux, and that's probably because the aquifer is where the flux-would-be-if-the-vein-wasn't.  Of course, the aquifer also makes itself felt on other layers, and while some of those are just "damp because of the Z-proximity", I've been ultracautious.

It helps that (except for the flux itself, which I don't need right now) there is absolutely nothing that I want to dig through the damp stone for, but I'm prepared to do some pump-assisted digging and then building involving retaining  walls  as and when I feel like breaking into it.  (Cave-ins being more destructive and not so much use when I'm not actually trying to punch through to dry...)
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Aquifer piercing
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2009, 12:18:20 pm »

Quote
"Traditional method" Did you mean cave-ins? You didn't mention that you had magma, which is the "traditional" way of doing something.


well, no. I dug a pit and built two water pumps. Then I sent my slaves dwarves in to smooth the walls of the aquifer, which nullifies it. Using that method I built space in the first aquifer level, and then i did the same with the second. Since my miners dug through too fast, and dug some holes that in retrospective they shouldnt have dug, the water flow kept throwing them down to the second level, stunning them and eventually drowning some of them (six)

This method needs stone walls to work, but I think that an analogue could work in sandwalls by building walls around the stairway. (it would be more annoying, though, as the main advantage from this method is that even if the dwarves cancel due to danger, a new smoothing job is placed automatically, whereas you have to manually reactivate constructions over and over to get them done.
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Elliott_Thinas

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Re: Aquifer piercing
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2009, 05:09:07 pm »

Here's an old guide I posted way back in the day, based on another guide I'd seen even wayer back in the day. Hope it helps.

Thank you so much Brodiggan this method is amazing!
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 06:19:31 pm by Elliott_Thinas »
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Brodiggan

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Re: Aquifer piercing
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2009, 05:35:31 pm »

Thank you so much Brodiggan this method is amazing!

No problem, like I said, I can't take all the credit, the original idea came from Tanelorn, I just altered it a bit to fit what I needed. Now I just wish I could find an embark location with more aquifers to pierce, so far, the most I've been able to find is 6 solid layers of aquifer, which is fairly nice, but I'm always looking for that epic swamp start with 8 or 10 or more so this can get close to qualifying as a megaproject.
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Elliott_Thinas

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Re: Aquifer piercing
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2009, 06:20:19 pm »

I'm having a bit of a problem with the 3rd aquifer layer however; maybe you can help me out a bit. I have the 4 2-tile channels done on the 3rd aquifer level but I've lost 3 miners in an attempt to dig out the 3rd channel tile. The pumps are working as hard as they can but the spot the miners stand on to channel keeps alternating between 1 and 6, dragging miners into the channel spots and drowning them. Do you know what I can do; did I did something wrong?
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Brodiggan

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Re: Aquifer piercing
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2009, 09:30:30 pm »

I'm having a bit of a problem with the 3rd aquifer layer however; maybe you can help me out a bit. I have the 4 2-tile channels done on the 3rd aquifer level but I've lost 3 miners in an attempt to dig out the 3rd channel tile. The pumps are working as hard as they can but the spot the miners stand on to channel keeps alternating between 1 and 6, dragging miners into the channel spots and drowning them. Do you know what I can do; did I did something wrong?

Could you post a screenshot of each level?

I hadn't run into any problems previously, but it's been a while since I used it, I hope I didn't make a typo anywhere. I'll start up a game on my end as well, and double check the instructions.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 09:35:55 pm by Brodiggan »
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