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Author Topic: What is the value of a dwarf?  (Read 7209 times)

Deon

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2009, 11:44:42 pm »
Uh oh, I cannot do it now. I don't know what's wrong, I add [COMMON_DOMESTIC] but they do not appear in the list... Any ideas? Could you upload a working folder on dffd so I've checked everything?
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Nadaka

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2009, 12:25:03 am »
It looks like it takes a full regen and possibly a delete of data/object files. This is unexpected because I didn't add or delete entities, creatures or files, only tokens on an existing creature/entity. With this setup you can buy peasants at 11 dwarfbucks. I've left them at that price because tame dwarves are effectively full citizens, its merely a way to embark with more. You need a dungeon master to train war peasants, and they are butcherable but their meat, bones and skin are unusable (even though you can import dwarf meat and leather from the mountain homes). [COOKABLE_LIVE] isn't needed, but I have been unable to find out what impact it has.

Spoiler: "dwarf creature" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "dwarf entity" (click to show/hide)
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Nadaka

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2009, 11:22:20 pm »
I have also determined that intelligent and approximately intelligent creatures eat food and may drink. This can be used to modify domestic animals to have realistic upkeep. Though this makes them less valuable as a food source, they eat far more than they produce.
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tehmarken

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2009, 12:34:57 am »
So, [trAINABLE] will let you have a creature become a servant of sorts? Does this work with captured things, like goblins or kobolds? Even if they can only hunt and/or item haul.
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Nadaka

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2009, 12:58:56 am »
TRAINABLE doesn't really do that. It allows you to train a creature to be faster/stronger at the cost of locking their labor and thoughts menu. This also has a side effect of letting you butcher them, but you won't be able to eat their meat or tan their skin. Now, some creatures will follow the one who trained them (my trainable elves and kobolds did), but not dwarves, they behave as before.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 01:06:54 am by Nadaka »
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Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back...
I don't care cause I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me...

I turned myself into a monster, to fight against the monsters of the world.

MatrexsVigil

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2009, 09:44:54 am »
Quote from: Nadaka on November 10, 2009, 12:25:03 am
It looks like it takes a full regen and possibly a delete of data/object files. This is unexpected because I didn't add or delete entities, creatures or files, only tokens on an existing creature/entity. With this setup you can buy peasants at 11 dwarfbucks. I've left them at that price because tame dwarves are effectively full citizens, its merely a way to embark with more. You need a dungeon master to train war peasants, and they are butcherable but their meat, bones and skin are unusable (even though you can import dwarf meat and leather from the mountain homes). [COOKABLE_LIVE] isn't needed, but I have been unable to find out what impact it has.

Spoiler: "dwarf creature" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "dwarf entity" (click to show/hide)

Alright, I did what this post says (and cleared out my entire Data/Objects folder as well) and now I can buy dwarves (for 2pts but that was my choice).  They appear to do things on their labor list (I tested them by having them move food around with everyone else turned off).  They ALSO appear in Dwarf Therapist with no names.  AWESOME.  Even with no names, I'd prefer to use the Therapist to assign tasks for everyone.

The only problem I have with this is that I can also buy things such as giant jellyfish and jaguars on the embark screen.  What is doing that?  I probably can't remove it without getting rid of the peasants from the embark screen as well...

EDIT:  They can also be drafted into the military, spar, and even gain XP.  Thanks Nadaka!
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 09:47:59 am by MatrexsVigil »
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Nadaka

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2009, 10:29:40 am »
the [USE_ANY_PET_RACE] in the entity tag is granting access to all kinds of exotic pets.
Also note that some of the dwarf ethics have been "adjusted" while exploring what I can do with them. It is not strictly required for your dwarves to be that brutal if all you want is for them to be purchasable.

Unfortunately, from what I have seen, there isn't a way to make buyable dwarves without some major side effects. This is one of them if you want dwarves that behave like dwarves. Previous attempts that didn't have that side effect either required a change of creature tags after world gen, or would not allow thoughts and sometimes labor menu to be displayed.
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Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back...
I don't care cause I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me...

I turned myself into a monster, to fight against the monsters of the world.

Deadmeat1471

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2009, 12:07:29 pm »
A dwarf is worth whatever a cat is willing to pay for him.  ;D
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 06:06:59 pm by Deadmeat1471 »
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LegoLord

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2009, 07:44:40 pm »
I've always thought that dwarves should have access to some subterranean creatures anyway.  Doesn't seem like to much of a problem to me.
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Lofn

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2009, 12:31:04 am »
A DWARF CHOOSES.

AN ELF OBEYS.
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Dante

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2009, 03:47:04 am »
My questions would have to be,

What if you give them the VERMINHUNTER tag?,

and

Can they go through 'tightly closed' doors?,

and

Does the rule apply where you can't properly tame a creature that has killed a [citizen] dwarf? e.g. slave goblins, slave berserk dwarves.
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Zifnab

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2009, 09:54:48 am »
I tried entering these modifications on top of the relentless assault mod and rob's mod.  Everything went fine until the third year when the dungeonmaster came.  Now no dwarfs can have their labors changed or thought menus accessed.  Not just the (tame) dwarves.  Do you think this will revert to normal if I get rid of the dungeon master?  Or, are you not able to train exotic animals anymore once the dungeon master is dead?
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sunshaker

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2009, 12:19:29 pm »
Ok I have to ask this. What happens if you do this mod and buy say 50 of them for a 1pt, embark, save then edit to remove the mod. Would you still have the 50 purchased dwarves? Would they still be capable of being controlled normally?

Also what skills do the purchased dwarves come with?
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Nadaka

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2009, 12:47:18 pm »
I have not tried verminhunter, might be a good test. I have not used tightly closed doors yet, need to test it.

Thats odd? It could be possible that the exotic pet tag kicks in when the dungeon keeper arrives. I have not had him show up in any of my tests yet.

Yes, removing the mod would leave you with the dwarves and you would still be able to control them. I have tested this.

The dwarves are peasants, they come with no skills.
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Take me out to the black, tell them I ain't comin' back...
I don't care cause I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me...

I turned myself into a monster, to fight against the monsters of the world.

NRN_R_Sumo1

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Re: What is the value of a dwarf?
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2009, 10:00:54 pm »
Hmmm.. Would it be possible to give them sort of a "Noble" status, where they has certain labours assigned but will do nothing other than that? I'm thinking force hauling labours and no others.
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Quote from: Hyndis on April 14, 2010, 05:32:00 pm
A dwarf is nothing but an alcohol powered beard.
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