Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

Author Topic: multi-level rooms  (Read 13887 times)

RedWarrior0

  • Bay Watcher
  • she/her
    • View Profile
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2009, 06:30:56 pm »

That would certainly solve the heating issue    ;D
Logged

qwertyuiopas

  • Bay Watcher
  • Photoshop is for elves who cannot use MSPaint.
    • View Profile
    • uristqwerty.ca, my current (barren) site.
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2009, 06:39:47 pm »

Simple: Only give the room a quality bonus from it's Z-size if the height is less than or equal to the smaller of the length and width.
Logged
Eh?
Eh!

RedWarrior0

  • Bay Watcher
  • she/her
    • View Profile
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2009, 06:46:22 pm »

Umm... a 3-z tall workshop room?

maybe length-3 and width-3? or length*.75 and width*.75? and what would that do for irregularly shaped rooms?
Logged

qwertyuiopas

  • Bay Watcher
  • Photoshop is for elves who cannot use MSPaint.
    • View Profile
    • uristqwerty.ca, my current (barren) site.
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2009, 07:02:16 pm »

It would prevent the bottomless pit being the ultimate room, and other such deadly areas.
Not that it's a particularily good formula, but it is much better than nothing.
Logged
Eh?
Eh!

Sordid

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2009, 07:09:25 pm »

It cant be all that hard to implement as well. The room size thing we have now would only need to be able to add z-level below/above, and the building selection would need to stay with the building when yo change z-level view.
It wouldn't even need to do that. Simply include the selection and everything upwards from it into the room until you hit a ceiling. The only snag would be ledges and such, but I'm sure it could be worked out to function automatically without having to manually designate rooms in three dimensions.
Logged

lucusLoC

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2009, 07:34:58 pm »

Wait, why are we trying to prevent a bottomless pit from being the ultimate room? One would think that it would be, absolute value wise.

I think what you are arguing about is preicieved value. That should be based on things like usable floor space, included funiture (and the variety of functions of that funiture) average quality of the items in the room etc.

The reasoning behind this is that if you floor over the bottom of a bottomless pit, and then place a single bed in the middle, it is, material wise, the most expensive in the fort. Quality wise it will be less so, since the room is in a rough state, and only has a bed. So the precived quality of the room will be low.

I am pretty sure there is another thread about preicieved room quality about somewhere....


Edit: room floor space should be *accessible* room floor space.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2009, 07:36:35 pm by lucusLoC »
Logged
Quantum dumps are proof of "memory" being a perfectly normal dimension in DF. ~Gazz

Bricks

  • Bay Watcher
  • Because you never need one brick.
    • View Profile
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2009, 07:47:46 pm »

Those formulas work fine for square rooms, but what about other shapes?  For example, in a room that is approximately circular, length and width don't really apply.  A more general way would be to measure things like the volume and surface area, but once again, those are easily exploitable.  (Although there aren't really great reasons for making a dining hall that is tall and narrow, as that creates lots of traffic problems)  It would be interesting if agoraphobia was a common issue among dwarfs.

@ lucus:
I think we're mostly concerned with perceived value, and how it is perceived, as far as multi-level rooms go.
Logged
EMPATHY - being able to feel other peoples' stuff.

Impaler[WrG]

  • Bay Watcher
  • Khazad Project Leader
    • View Profile
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2009, 10:58:18 pm »

As Sordid says everything in the z axis above the designated floor space should just be included automatically (perhaps with some additional system to 'grow' the room on other z levels to include things like ledges).

Value wise a rooms space should have different values, the usable floor space is most valuable and 'head room' aka empty space above that usable space grows exponentially less valuable the higher up it is.  So for example a unit of floor space is worth 1, the next level up 1/2, the one above that 1/3 etc etc.  This rewards the player for making a tall Cathedral like room but keeps the bonus from getting ridiculously high.
Logged
Khazad the Isometric Fortress Engine
Extract forts from DF, load and save them to file and view them in full 3D

Khazad Home Thread
Khazad v0.0.5 Download

Pilsu

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2009, 08:32:04 am »

The room size could cap the overall value instead of contributing in itself. Opulent throne rooms would need to be roomy, not just loaded with expensive stuff. Raising the ceiling would obviously multiply the amount of tiles

It is an option to only allow the bottom two z-levels to determine the value. Better yet, add a minimum amount of tiles before raising the roof by another z does anything. That would avoid the 10 z level opulent closets bedrooms containing nothing but a diamond encrusted bed
Logged

Draco18s

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2009, 12:17:17 pm »

That would avoid the 10 z level opulent closets bedrooms containing nothing but a diamond encrusted bed

How much is a diamond encrusted bed worth?  Assume a masterpiece bed for maximum opulence.
Logged

Christes

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2009, 01:58:23 am »

Assuming a wooden bed with one masterful diamond decoration:

bed=10
wood=1
masterful=12

Base value = 10*1*12=120


decoration=10
diamond=60
masterful=12

Decoration value = 10*60*12=7200

Final Value = 120 + 7200 = 7320
Logged

Draco18s

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2009, 12:19:37 pm »

*Fiddle, fiddle*
Well, looking at my existing Room Value Calculation sheet, a 1x1 room with a diamond encrusted bed, no beneficial value from height (it would be minor, due to the increased number of walls and maybe a little more), and no door then the room would be worth....

604.06 DwarfBux.  Vanilla room value is 7329, assuming rough gray rock walls.
That's Decent Quarters vs. Grand Quarters.  Just smoothing the room adds 34 raw vanilla value, but increases my calculation for the room bonus enough to push the value up to 1779.9 "Great Quarters."

However, even decorating the bed in worked adamantine doesn't push the room value into royal.  You'd need to have built the room in "white" or "black" stone and smoothed it.  My original post on the topic included various examples and how much work it took to get a room up to "royal" without using ungodly expensive materials (diamonds and adamantine, due to their rarity, I think I stuck with gold).  IIRC it involved at least one engraving (any quality) in black stone at 1x1 size with two pieces of masterwork platinum furniture one of which is decorated masterfully in gold (10468.76 "averaged" value).

Anyway the point is, that even with a bonus from having vaulted ceilings, 90% of a room's value is from furniture.  My (complex, but reasonable) formula simply puts more weight on the room itself.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 12:29:35 pm by Draco18s »
Logged

Pilsu

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2009, 02:12:46 am »

You can use several types of diamonds on the same item can't you?
Logged

eerr

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2009, 01:53:16 pm »

*Fiddle, fiddle*
Well, looking at my existing Room Value Calculation sheet, a 1x1 room with a diamond encrusted bed, no beneficial value from height (it would be minor, due to the increased number of walls and maybe a little more), and no door then the room would be worth....

604.06 DwarfBux.  Vanilla room value is 7329, assuming rough gray rock walls.
That's Decent Quarters vs. Grand Quarters.  Just smoothing the room adds 34 raw vanilla value, but increases my calculation for the room bonus enough to push the value up to 1779.9 "Great Quarters."

However, even decorating the bed in worked adamantine doesn't push the room value into royal.  You'd need to have built the room in "white" or "black" stone and smoothed it.  My original post on the topic included various examples and how much work it took to get a room up to "royal" without using ungodly expensive materials (diamonds and adamantine, due to their rarity, I think I stuck with gold).  IIRC it involved at least one engraving (any quality) in black stone at 1x1 size with two pieces of masterwork platinum furniture one of which is decorated masterfully in gold (10468.76 "averaged" value).

Anyway the point is, that even with a bonus from having vaulted ceilings, 90% of a room's value is from furniture.  My (complex, but reasonable) formula simply puts more weight on the room itself.
this is no longer true if you build quaters on ore and gem veins, and thouroughly engrave them.

Logged

lucusLoC

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: multi-level rooms
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2009, 04:10:16 pm »

What happens to that volume calculation if there is furnituere on multiple z levels? Say i put the cabinets and armor stands on the ground floor, but the bed in a loft 5 z levels up? Is usable floor space only calculated on the ground floor? And can the room fill flow through a stairwell? How will the "headroom" calculation work? Raw z levels, or will it take into account shelvs and other ledges? What are the values of ramps and stairs in vannila? should there be a difference in value for accessable and inaccessable floor and/or wall tiles? Should "celing tiles" count twords value? (As in, wat happens if the room ends in open space)

I see a lot of questions that need to be dealt with. This is way more complicated than "i build a 4x4x2 room"

If we have multi z level rooms it should be able to handle a very royal study, with a meeting desk on the first floor, an art gallery and walkway on the second, a library nook on the third, and a vaulted ceiling on the fourth, fifth and sixth, with a 4 tile vent/skylight in the middle (covered or just vented into the walls)

The devil is in the details.
Logged
Quantum dumps are proof of "memory" being a perfectly normal dimension in DF. ~Gazz
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4