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Author Topic: Making the Baron/Mandates Useful/Important  (Read 1924 times)

Loyal

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Making the Baron/Mandates Useful/Important
« on: March 12, 2010, 12:52:46 pm »

Currently, the Baron and his ilk don't do anything that couldn't have been handled by your Mayor, and even then he's only useful two-three times per year. On a related note, Mandates are a vexing concept where the only motivation for doing them is that you don't want a random, potentially useful dwarf to get hammered or jailed or beaten.

Being such high nobility, the Baron should hold some pull, not only in his fortress but with the mountainhome, or even with nearby friendly towns. His opinion of the fortress he resides in should be tracked and shared with the mountainhome, in such a way that there's more to how many migrants you get than the merchants saying "Hey, guys, this place is RICH!"

What I'm suggesting is to have mandates (and possibly the Baron's living conditions) affect his overall 'opinion' of the fortress, and let him know what the fortress is or is not capable of producing competently. Many successfully completed mandates of the same type (say, silver items) would make him happy and tell him that the fortress can make plenty of these things, so when the caravan next arrives, he can tell the liason that this fortress is home to hard-working dwarves who could probably find work for some skilled artisans, especially metalcrafters. In following immigrant waves, you'll be more likely to get dwarves that can work silver, and perhaps some of your migrants will even have skills above novice/no-label.

Similarly, failing to fulfill mandates repeatedly (as in, glass items) will tell him, once he gets over his disappointment, that the fortress cannot make glass items. He will tell this to the liason, and so you are less likely to get glasscrafters. It could also convince the baron to stop making Glass mandates and find something else to ask for. Naturally, his opinion of the fortress will fall, affecting your future migrant waves, until he begins asking for something you CAN fulfill, but the Unfortunate Accident ever remains an option if it gets too bad.

For this to work, the way mandates are chosen couldn't be limited to what the noble likes, instead either cycling through random object types ("this year, the fort shall produce leather goods!"), or based on what the trading liasons have requested for the year ("they want metal goblets and prepared meals, and so you should make some"). Granted, I haven't mentioned the Mayor or Tax Collector at all as far as mandates go, but... I'm sure we could think of something.

-Summary:
  • Mandates no longer based on what the nobles like, instead being centered around periodically changing themes.
  • Baron's opinion of the fort affected by his living conditions and the fulfillment of mandates; Higher opinion means more and/or more skilled migrants; merchant profit no longer the only deciding factor.
  • Failed mandates means fewer mandates of that type being issued, and fewer migrants of that job profession arriving.
  • Tax Collector, Mayor should probably also be affected somehow by the mandates issued, or alternatively will stop issuing mandates at all.
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Talanic

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Re: Making the Baron/Mandates Useful/Important
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2010, 01:34:29 pm »

I posted an idea of my own a while back.  The idea that mandates would be more of suggestions, and not made for local nobles as often as for foreign ones.  Filling those mandates in extravagant fashion would gain favor from other cities and/or countries, gaining you diplomatic leverage.  Such things might be useful along with your idea...
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Quatch

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Re: Making the Baron/Mandates Useful/Important
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2010, 03:14:22 pm »

I think that this part:

or based on what the trading liasons have requested for the year ("they want metal goblets and prepared meals, and so you should make some").

is the real gem of the suggestion. +1!

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praguepride

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Re: Making the Baron/Mandates Useful/Important
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2010, 03:41:52 pm »

I think it completing enough mandates should end up with a bonus of some sort.

For example, the Baron is pleased and wants to invest in the security of his home. A group of trained warriors appear in the next immigrant wave (skills & equipment on par with caravan guards).

Baron puts out the call far and wide and attracts a legendary-skilled dwarf.

Baron's proclamation of riches cause the next caravan to hit the fort to be 2x the size.

Baron uses his awesome leadership ability to turn rocks into sand (for sandless maps), turn rocks into water (for waterless maps) or stone into magma (for magma maps).

Seriously though, one thought does come to mind which is from playing World in Conflict. When you complete side quests you'll often be granted "free" stuff, like free tanks etc. What if you got a free anvil or something when you complete enough requests or something like that...
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Zalminen

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Re: Making the Baron/Mandates Useful/Important
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2010, 06:15:26 am »

Well, I'd be more than satisfied if the mandates
  • Could be fulfilled by either buying them from a caravan or by producing them yourself
  • Would have a 2 year time limit so you'd actually have time to ask for them
  • Could only be for stuff that's possible to either import or produce currently

But yes, fulfilling mandates should give something positive. Improving the immigration waves or bringing bigger (or more) caravans would do just fine.
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Firehound

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Re: Making the Baron/Mandates Useful/Important
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2010, 06:50:43 am »

IMO, the Mayor should basically just request types of jobs be completed if they become neglected. I.E. The guild jobs.
Tax collector should mandate coins of X type be created until you have enough for him, maybe 1-2 times the actual total account wealth of your dwarves shuts him up and keeps him happy.
No free stuff though, other then a chance to attract higher skilled workers/bigger caravan waves/more imigrants. Why does the mountainhome want to just randomly give me a anvil because I just built 10 *steel swords*?
And the Rock into non-rock I do not like it, It's just silly.

Also, Unfortunate accidents should have a big impact on your fortresses opinion. I mean, if the last twelve counts just got impaled on spikes accidentally linked to a lever/walled into a section of the wall and left to rot/ drowned/magma'd/etc... I don't thik the thirteenth will think to highly of your fort.
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zwei

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Re: Making the Baron/Mandates Useful/Important
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2010, 08:07:56 am »

No free stuff though, other then a chance to attract higher skilled workers/bigger caravan waves/more imigrants. Why does the mountainhome want to just randomly give me a anvil because I just built 10 *steel swords*?

Smith immigrant that carries his own anvil is workable example.

praguepride

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Re: Making the Baron/Mandates Useful/Important
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2010, 09:54:13 am »

The soldiers would be another good example.

"With his newfound wealth, Baron McUrist is worried that thieves might try and steal his [Red Spinel Toy Hammer]s and requests a pack of wardogs to arrive with the next immigrant wave."

(Player gets 4 trained wardogs along with the next immigrant.)

"With his newly created arsenal, Count McUrist wants trained fighters to wield his [Steel Sword]s and requests the services of a group of mercenaries."

(Player gets 2-4 trained swordsmen in the next immigrant wave)

"With his newfound wealth, King McUrist sends out a call across the kingdom for a champion to arrive to protect his supply of [Glass Window]s."

(Player gets a Champion skilled in a random combat skill with Proficient Armor & Shield Use in next immigrant wave).

So here's a brief summary:

  • Make mandates "reasonable." A resource must be viable and visible on the revealed map. So no glass on sandless maps, no red spinels on a map where red spinels haven't been discovered. Quantity isn't an issue, so if you have 1 red spinel on the map and he demands 10 red spinel items, you'd best start digging, but at least you have a clue where. If this isn't possible, then eliminate glass as a possible mandate item due to it's common unavailability.
  • Extend uncommon & rare material mandates to two or three years respectively. This will give the player time to request the necessary items from caravans as well as being able to recieve said item in time. It should be difficult and a close call (where you have your workshops at the ready waiting for the material) but with a reasonable amount of planning & effort, most mandates should be possible.
  • Generalize craft mandates or provide additional time. Nothing is more frustrating when you have to make 10 toy hammers and get 1,000 toy anvils instead. Either have mandates just ask for general things (10 toys), or allow player to set focus in workshop profile (make toy hammers) that would x2 the chance of that item being made as opposed to another craft/toy/mug.
  • Provide a reward to the player for completeing a mandate. If the reward is just "I won't imprison one of your dwarfs" then most players will just scrap the noble as there is NO benefit and a lot of pain associated with them. If they provided even a marginal benefit, pleasing nobles would go from acts of masochism to actual strategic ideas.
  • Rewards should be scaled according to power of noble and difficulty of mandate. So a request for 10 doors (of any material) by a Baron would provide a very marginal benefit. A request for 20 Adamantine Sceptars from the King should provide a HUGE bonus due to power of the king, rarity of material and difficulty of request (you're going to burn through a lot of adamantine crowns before you get that many sceptars).
  • Make mandates tie to position. So a "military" noble would request weapons & armor. Tax Collector would demand coins. Barons, Counts, and Kings would request luxury items (crowns, sceptars, mugs, windows etc.). Consorts would demand toys (for their kids or expected kids). Things like that.
  • Export Bans tied to reality. Basically the only time an export ban should crop up is if you are exporting a large amount of material or items that a noble enjoys. So if a noble loves wood opal and you are exporting a large amount of wood opal, he might demand you stop exporting wood opal. It's a big "immersion breaker" when a noble bans the export of Red Spinel when there is no red spinel made, bought, or sold throughout the fort's history.
  • Some thoughts on bonuses:
    • Skilled immigrants - Low level nobels would just attract a typical specialist while higher level nobles might attract a professional or even Legendary immigrant
    • Military dwarves - Low level would bring in novice recruits while high level might be skilled or even champion level dwarves. Military dwarves would bring equipment akin to caravan guards (typical iron armor & weapons).
    • Equipment - probably tied to an immigrant. So a metalsmith might bring an anvil. Military dwarves would bring iron weapons & armor. A dyer might bring a bucket and bag of dye. A clothier would bring a bin of cloth. A jewler would have an uncut gem. A glassblower would bring a bag of sand etc.
    • Animals - can be regular animals, trained animals (war dogs) or even exotic animals (who doesn't want a pair of breeding grizzlies or giant eagles?)
    • Caravan - a caravan comes with x2 the number of items & carrying space.
    • Peace - an enemy civ stops seiging you (either temp. for goblins, perm. for humans & elves)
    • Strange Mood - noble is so happy he falls into a strange mood and goes off and creates an artifact.
    • Allies - a group of NPC's wander in and help defend the fort. For example, some caravan guards permanently station themselves by your trade depot. Or perhaps your king hammers out an alliance with some trolls who wander around your fort foiling goblin ambushes. The rational is that the noble's odd request was sent to the NPC to buy their allegience.
    • Magic - this would be a later implementation once magic & wizards are implemented.
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Man, dwarves are such a**holes!

Even automatic genocide would be a better approach