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[Bricks]

I view the 1 tile ramp as more of an inverted cone with 8 holes in the base...  Everything is connected then...

You think too much

Heh.  Also, ramps don't work that way.  Check out dwarf civs in adventure mode, for example.

[Stephen]

As a brand-new player to this game, I have to say that ramps are one of the LEAST confusing things in this game.  All I need to know is that they basically exist as a floor on both z-levels, and so allow movement between them.  Sometimes that's easy to visualize in a really really specific way, sometimes it's not.

The way z-levels work in every other aspect is confusing to me.  If you mine a tile on both z = 143 and z = 142, is there really a floor space between them?  And I haven't the slightest idea how liquids even work.  I've looked at screen shots and stories from other games, but in my first fortress I haven't dared approach them yet.  I suppose I should read the wiki some more, but I've already spent so much time there that I'm tempted just to experiment on this one. (Side note:  props to tinypirate's walkthrough, which was really helpful up to the point where I got slaughtered by some goblins.)

Ramps and stairs seem very straightforward to me.  (When you dig down stairs, you see the the "wall" below, until you dig something out down there as well.)

[Tack]

My simple idea, is that a ramp is essentially a small pyramid, like the one that *Lord* mayday made before. However, when it's a ramp going up a surface, it is pushed into that surface. Therefore a corner ramp is like... uh...

Level 0
_____
   | - |
-  L__|
        |

Level 1
_____
       L|
      - |
      - |


The "-" are just to make the space fit better. But yeah, that's my idea.

[Typoman]

that doesn't explain a caravan being able to go down the ramp from opposite directions and still get in a room

[Mike Mayday]

*Lord* mayday

what

[Rose]

bah, just divide the current Z levels by 8 and do away with ramps all together.

so wagons can only traverse a Z difference of +/- 1

[Bricks]

*Lord* mayday

what

Lord Mayday, I bequeath thee!

Stephen, your way of visualizing ramps is more like how stairs work.  Ramps, however, have definite directions in game, as you often will encounter a strange ramp in adventure mode that can only be entered from one side, because the space underneath is dug out.  Also, sometimes one level of a ramp exists, while the other is destroyed for various reasons.

Listing exploits (i.e. how to dig out large areas) is not a constructive reason to keep ramps as they are.  Dividing up z-levels further just compounds problems.  I'll agree that it makes little sense how wagons traverse a 3x1 ramp, but there aren't many ways around that (apart from imagination).

Another reason to updates ramps is to allow them to push flows around better.  It was discussed a while ago.

[Untelligent]

Are you sure this actually works? Dwarves can't go up ramps without a wall next to them.


I don't mind the current ramps at all; they've never caused any problems for me, and when I use them they work exactly how I expect them to.

[Tack]

Well that's what I think a ramp looks like when it's going nowhere. which makes them useful for asthetic details in Visual Fortress.
However, If they were pushed into the mountain, and when two ramps of similar direction were to connect, it would actually make for a very plausible reason why wagons can go up them.

[Silverionmox]

As a brand-new player to this game, I have to say that ramps are one of the LEAST confusing things in this game.  All I need to know is that they basically exist as a floor on both z-levels, and so allow movement between them.  Sometimes that's easy to visualize in a really really specific way, sometimes it's not.

It's obviously clear how they work as a game element, but it's not clear what they represent in te DF world.

Ramps and stairs seem very straightforward to me.  (When you dig down stairs, you see the the "wall" below, until you dig something out down there as well.)

If you dig out a tunnel there, the square above still shows up as a stair.. even though you can't go down,

[Tack]

*Lord* mayday

what

Yeah, sorry. Graphics whore = DF Graphics mastermind, = Celebrity. (or god, take your pick)

[qwertyuiopas]

Well, as for liquids on ramps, it makes sense that they would be pushed out.... Wherever there isn't a wall. Though maybe with a slight bias in directions with an empty across from a wall.

However, rolling objects are a diffrent concern.


So, the only reason you REALLY want directional ramps is for your indiana jones style boulder corridors, and that is less than 2% of the final function of ramps in general, but would require somewhat of a pathing modification and interface addition.

However, both of these will change relatively soon, and directional rams would complicate these upgrades.

And, at the same time, more detailed world objects are almost guarenteed eventually.


Conclusion: Don't push for directional ramps yet, wait for at least one of the future upgrades(Interface, pathfinding) so that Tarn gets more time to work on more important features.


(Pathfinding: complicated, each additional bit of complexity would slow future upgrades; Interface upgrade: Required to maintain a finitely sloped learning curve)

[Shurhaian]

What's odd about this topic is that there does seem to be SOME directionality to ramps.

The entrance to my fortress goes along a straight shaft, down a ramp, along a hallway and around a bend, and down another ramp. That middle level does not have ANYTHING beyond the ramps, only the floor between them - the ramps are up against walls on either end.

When I dug behind the end of the corridor on the uppermost level to put a ballista post, and then tried to put fortifications, I found something odd.

If I finished a row of fortifications near the ballista, I could not put in another row of fortifications nearer the ramp because it had no path.

So, for some reason or other, than particular ramp DOES only work in one direction. I'm assuming that there has to be a sensible path from the bottom to the top. If the south side of the ramp's lower level is against a wall, you can't come from the north side of the lower level and go out the north side of the upper level.

Isolated ramps can be seen as incomplete. Until you put a wall on one side, they don't really go anywhere. Finishing the ramp is in reality a part of building that adjacent wall(or the floor on the level above).

In other words, the dwarves are doing some of that work behind the scenes.

As for what happens when the ramp goes both ways, north and south to use my above example... I got nothing.

[RavingManiac]

Since ramps already do have directions, the only problem is the player's inability is discern what direction a ramp is facing. It would be pretty easy to have different tiles for ramps facing different directions, using a similar system to walls.

[FluffyToast J]

I imagine ramps with two walls on either side being like this...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

(open in paint and zoom in if its hard to read)

Probably not at all practical, but still.