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[Lyrax]

There seems to be some misunderstanding on a few points of weapons.  I am a scholar (though not one of renown) in the area of European medieval and renaissance arms, armor and martial arts, which is what those of DF most closely resemble.  I know a few things about it.

1) Obsidian is glass, people.  It's frikkin' sharp.  I think flint might be more durable and less likely to shatter on you, but obsidian does way more damage to unarmored flesh than just about anything.  It's really cool stuff.

2) Steel armor makes obsidian swords (technically 'proto-swords') into light wooden clubs.  Not useless, but not effective, either.  The reason is that obsidian is awesome at cutting, and steel armor is even awesomer at resisting cuts.  It also resists pierces well, but is not as good against blunt trauma.  Blunt force can dent armor plates into the person wearing them (you thought it was awesome having a sword stuck in someone?  How about their own helmet?).  Axes are also effective against armor, but they don't usually cut or shear it (possible; also unlikely).  They just bludgeon it.

3) I'm surprised that stone 'maces' and 'hammers' haven't been suggested.  These are by *far* the easiest ways to make a stone weapon.  Get a rock.  Tie it to the end of a sturdy stick.  Bingo.  Stone spears would be unwieldy, but you could make stone-tipped spears.  Or just quarterstaffs (also quarterstaves), which are basically wooden spears with no tips.

4) Steel weapons are much more durable than the people that use them.  They last a long time, even under heavy abuse.  Some of them are even around today.  Sharpening weapons was definitely something that soldiers did, though I've never heard of a professional weapon sharpener.  No warrior was so poor he could not afford the stone he needed to keep a blade sharp.  Weaponsmiths could mend damaged or broken weapons, but the only thing I can think of to make these common would be demons.  The main concern for sword-wielding warriors was that the cross-guard would come off, which did happen every now and again.  By which I mean "several times over the hundreds of years it was around."  Not once a season, or once a year.  Once every two generations would be nearer to the mark.

Feh.  If a weapon is not well-made, it might need major maintenance a year or two after forging, or it might get ruined with serious use.  If it was quite well-made, then it will still need future maintenance, but not within the scope of a game.  Unless you plan to play for a hundred years?

[Kaelem Gaen]

I was gonna suggest Ebony, then I learned it is actually a wood, used for decoration, and apparently you need to use steel tools on it to carve it (One of the few woods that sink in water.)   I wonder how that would stand up to being a weapon.

[Kagus]

Ebony is tough, coco-bolo (or however it's spelled) is tough, and there's some other wood that will even chew up steel after a while.  Ridiculously heavy, and it does indeed sink like a stone.  Absolutely gorgeous wood, though.

[Draco18s]

Ironwood (aptly named) also sinks, but beyond that I don't know much about it (and even less about ebony, had no idea it sank).

[Fieari]

I know a martial arts weapon maker who works with wood, and he uses Ipe (aka Ironwood) primarily, although he's done some Ebony work for masters, since it's even stronger (but yes, heavier, and FAR more expensive/hard to obtain).  But he's primarily looking at whether or not the wood will break during combat, and less at whether the wood will work against someone in armor.  It's usually assumed you're going against someone unarmored-- otherwise the wooden weapons are more useful in helping disarm or trip, not injure.

[Bricktop]

Well, when I said "stone spears" I did mean "stone-tipped spears".

Also, I was thinking of many of the things more has tools (in the case of the axes) and hunting weapons (in the case of the spears), although they would also be useful for people who only had access to copper for weapon making and wanted something a bit sharper.

I think that weapons getting sharpened by the soldiers using them would actually be best, and it could possibly be an automatic job that they do when off-duty. Of course, repairing would be done by weaponsmiths.

Also, remember that in a lot of cases there are a lot of badly made weapons around in dwarf fortress (well, weapons with no quality, at any rate).
Oh, and:

quote:Unless you plan to play for a hundred years?

When the army arc comes in, yes. When the army arc is in there will be far more encouragement to keep a world going, rather than regen after the first forts abandonment. A standard world will probably have easily 100 years of play in it.

[Lyrax]

The only real use for having soldiers sharpen their weapons that I can tell is to allow them to 'work' constantly, yet not reach legendary after ~1 year of training.  Which is certainly legitimate, but kind of a bloat.  Is there another reason to add this?

Also, hickory and oak are much less expensive than ebony or ironwood, and are usually hard and durable enough.  Especially hickory.

[Captain Failmore]

I also second this suggestion, and have for a time been wondering why stone maces and the like, as obvious as they seem, aren't in the game. Assuming that your soldiers aren't all archers (and one day we might not be able to get by with unstoppable all-archer armies), you have to have very specific materials to arm your men unless you want them to just be wrestlers instead.

Stone weapons could and should be available in every flavor. They should suffer from lower quality and durability than their finer metal counterparts, but be effective none the less. I'm also an advocate of wooden training weapons, which have been brought up before as a way to safely train accident-prone recruits.

[Othob Rithol]

Req107

I'm not trying to stifle the discussion. I just wanted you all to know Toady thought of it too. You have clearly expanded the topic into a materials discussion, which could serve as useful reference if when he gets around to it.

See?!? You can say "It's in the devnotes" without being a pompous elf.

[Bricktop]

Oh, well the original suggestion is already planned. I'm happy. Yay!  

As for the durability discussion that has cropped up in the thread:

For the actual sharpening of weapons then yes, it should just be the soldiers who do it. I never thought of "weapon sharpening" being a skill that would start granting bonuses (the last thing we need is another legendary skill for our military).

Actual broken weapons should be repaired by weaponsmiths though (unless they are at XXweaponXX, which I seem to remember = mangled). Some weapons (iron etc) would rarely break, but copper and bronze swords etc would break sometimes (copper weapon would actually break fairly regularly I'd've thought...)

This could also be expanded to armour. Not the sharpening, obviously... but when a giant hits you hard enough to break your brain, your armour will probably not be in the best shape ever as a result.

[Carpecanum]

Flint Knapping would also include Quartz/Quartzite (and i think Jasper) in addition to chert, flint and obsidian.  While i think it would be great to make stone weapons in all those embarks where all i get is zinc, the real game changer could be the use of stone weapons by other races.  Making better arrows without "wasting" metal would also be great.  The possibility for weapon breakage could could be added (you can't just sharpen it like metal).  Pure stone weapons would not be realistic but stone heads on wood should be a possibility (i think obsidian swords are supposed to be wood with sharp bits embedded all around).  Goblins and trogs should use this tech extensively, denying their dwarfy rivals free metal goods for the smelter after every battle. 

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Have you seen Aztec obsidian swords?

Goblins should use metal. Cave creatures and kobolds are fine with copper and stone.

Also, thank you for necro-ing instead of starting a new thread. Keep in mind though that this is already partially implemented.

[Adam Mantine]

At the very least we should be able to make spiked stone balls as trap components.

Have you seen Aztec obsidian swords?

Doesn't the game already have those?

[SixOfSpades]

Fun fact: Some modern surgeons are experimenting with obsidian, because it's so sharp that the cut left by a surgical-steel scalpel looks downright ragged by comparison. The downsides are: 1) It's difficult to flake obsidian to a predetermined, uniform shape, 2) Even cutting soft materials is enough to wear the edge, and 3) Once dull, it can never be sharpened again.

Despite obsidian's very arguable superiority, flint, chert, and the like were more commonly used by Stone Age peoples, almost certainly due to their wider availability (and there is evidence that these stones were traded over distances of many hundreds of miles), although DF's obsidian physics seem perfectly situated to reverse that relationship.

A stone stool that breaks during combat (or other use) is still a weapon--just a more primitive one. If the tip of my hand-axe chips off upon impact with your steel helmet, I've still got a jagged rock. Not ideal, but it's still a lot better than my fist.

Also worthy of mention is the idea of a Legendary Knapper vs. a gabbo man. Could the Knapper literally sharpen his opponent to death, or would his work simply make his foe more deadly?

[Draco18s]

Some research into scar width comparisons:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8415970

News article about a doctor who regularly uses obsidian blades (shame there aren't any cool pictures):
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/02/health/surgery-scalpels-obsidian/

And a place you can buy your Very Own obsidian scalpel:
http://www.finescience.com/Special-Pages/Products.aspx?ProductId=296&CategoryId=56&lang=en-US

I'm also seeing some references to "synthetic diamond scalpel blades" which match obsidian in blade edge width (30 angstroms) but no hard details.  Except possibly these guys who are making them.  But their website doesn't indicate how narrow the cutting edge is.

The super-sharp diamond blades would be a standard steel blade, coated in a thin layer of artificial diamond, then plasma torched into sharpness.

That from an article on diamond razor blades that last "years not weeks."  Probably still 10 times as expensive as a year's supply of cheaper blades, though.

Anyway, neat stuff that I had already known about, but never did any in-depth research on.