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Author Topic: [Poi~] Poi is once again permitted (Happy thread)  (Read 7818426 times)

JoshuaFH

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Re: [Tho] It is made of raw. It creates extra posts [#####+] (Happy thread)
« Reply #186090 on: July 25, 2018, 06:33:45 am »

Can we mention the GAME THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED yet? It had a mega-update today.

Also, happy cake day!

What is the name of the game that shall not be named?
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KittyTac

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Re: [Tho] It is made of raw. It creates extra posts [#####+] (Happy thread)
« Reply #186091 on: July 25, 2018, 06:34:56 am »

Does it start with R, by any chance? :P
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Tiruin

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Re: [Tho] It is made of raw. It creates extra posts [#####+] (Happy thread)
« Reply #186092 on: July 25, 2018, 06:43:27 am »

Does it start with R, by any chance? :P
Sounds like it starts with a N and man can you believe it, also ends with a Y, as in three words because its start was disgraceful. It's my guess anyway.

:P I have 0 skill in subtlety in that context or at all, perhaps.
Edit because formatting.
Happy Birthday Cinder, and all the others unwished in post :)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 06:56:27 am by Tiruin »
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hector13

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Re: [Tho] It is made of raw. It creates extra posts [#####+] (Happy thread)
« Reply #186093 on: July 25, 2018, 06:45:57 am »

It was very heavily criticized on its release because it had none of the features that were promised during development.
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scriver

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Re: [Tho] It is made of raw. It creates extra posts [#####+] (Happy thread)
« Reply #186094 on: July 25, 2018, 06:59:04 am »

Does it start with R, by any chance? :P
Sounds like it starts with a N and man can you believe it, also ends with a Y, as in three words because its start was disgraceful. It's my guess anyway.

:P I have 0 skill in subtlety in that context or at all,

Nah I think I got it ;)
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: [Tho] It is made of raw. It creates extra posts [#####+] (Happy thread)
« Reply #186095 on: July 25, 2018, 06:59:35 am »

It was very heavily criticized on its release because it had none of the features that were promised during development.

In these days of corporate greed and sloppy development, that doesn't narrow it down by much you know. I know what game you're talking about but still.
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Reelya

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Re: [Tho] It is made of raw. It creates extra posts [#####+] (Happy thread)
« Reply #186096 on: July 25, 2018, 07:05:19 am »

I don't think corporate greed and sloppy development have changed at all. Development is generally less sloppy now due to much better tools for managing things.

What's changed is that the development process is transparent to the public in a way it never was before. In the old days, games were launched, then the marketing team did the "what's cool about it" thing, and they did some flashy cover-art that everyone knew would in no way resemble what's in the box.

Most initial game projects still failed back then, but before anyone would hear about them, and some games would have massive redesigns / change in focus during development, but you'd only really know that by playing the final game, and noticing the cracks. Now, it's normal to hear the big spiel about what a game is going to be in the early concept phase, then it gets down to the actual reality of making a working game (that's the period in which about 2/3rds of the raw concept ideas need to be thrown away completely, since they're not practical or cohesive) and then people freak out about how companies "lied to them" about what they were making. This is just the age-old black magic of how games come into existence, but laid bare for the public to view the process.

Even Peter Molyneux gets slammed mainly because he publicizes his "wild initial ideas", and not for the objective quality of the games he has released - they only suck in relation to some mythical "best game ever" that he thought up to start with. Think - he does that for every game. it's the same process that gave us Populous, Black and White, Dungeon Keeper, and Fable. But now when he has an idea, we say "fuck you Peter, your original game idea didn't all get made exactly like you said it would". fuck Peter Molyneux? Fuck us for all being such assholes about it. Without Peter Molyneux coming up with too-big ideas to start with, he couldn't have made the games he is famous for.

The real problem is that the industry needs those big ideas guys, if you want great games. you need to come up with ideas that are too big if you want to push the boundaries. Then you come up against realistic constraints, and you creatively fudge things, and cut things down to size, to make a practically-creatable game. The danger is that we're now pillorying visionaries and demanding that devs deliver "realistic" games where the original concept pitch is 100% what is delivered at the end. People are going to stop reaching for greater heights if we treat everyone like that. We don't need "reasonable" devs who deliver exactly what's promised, because that only prioritizes mediocrity, we need unreasonable people who ask for too much out of the hardware and systems.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 07:23:37 am by Reelya »
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scriver

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Re: [Tho] It is made of raw. It creates extra posts [#####+] (Happy thread)
« Reply #186097 on: July 25, 2018, 08:19:17 am »

What we need is developers, be they "idea people" like Millerman French or not, who do not try to sell their wild ideas to the players, and do not use their wild ideas to market their games to the players.

In Sweden we have a short and concise saying: "Don't shout 'woo!' before you've cleared the brook". It's what people like Molynix need to take to heart. Customers are not assholes for being assholes to the Molineuxes of the business after they have proved to be unreliable cloud-castle salesmen who can't deliver on their promises. If they want to have that kind of dreams, sure, keep it in the business. Don't make it the fucking marketing campaign for the games.
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Cinder

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Re: [Tho] It is made of raw. It creates extra posts [#####+] (Happy thread)
« Reply #186098 on: July 25, 2018, 09:33:58 am »

I think people are starting to realize that ideas are cheap and it's executions that matter. Just about any game concepts can be awesome with a good team. There's next to no intrinsic value to ideas themselves except to determine the rules of engagement.
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: [Tho] It is made of raw. It creates extra posts [#####+] (Happy thread)
« Reply #186099 on: July 25, 2018, 12:23:39 pm »

The notion of ideas being worthless on their own when it comes to game development is by no means a - heh - new idea.

I don't think corporate greed and sloppy development have changed at all. Development is generally less sloppy now due to much better tools for managing things.

What's changed is that the development process is transparent to the public in a way it never was before. In the old days, games were launched, then the marketing team did the "what's cool about it" thing, and they did some flashy cover-art that everyone knew would in no way resemble what's in the box.

Most initial game projects still failed back then, but before anyone would hear about them, and some games would have massive redesigns / change in focus during development, but you'd only really know that by playing the final game, and noticing the cracks. Now, it's normal to hear the big spiel about what a game is going to be in the early concept phase, then it gets down to the actual reality of making a working game (that's the period in which about 2/3rds of the raw concept ideas need to be thrown away completely, since they're not practical or cohesive) and then people freak out about how companies "lied to them" about what they were making. This is just the age-old black magic of how games come into existence, but laid bare for the public to view the process.

Even Peter Molyneux gets slammed mainly because he publicizes his "wild initial ideas", and not for the objective quality of the games he has released - they only suck in relation to some mythical "best game ever" that he thought up to start with. Think - he does that for every game. it's the same process that gave us Populous, Black and White, Dungeon Keeper, and Fable. But now when he has an idea, we say "fuck you Peter, your original game idea didn't all get made exactly like you said it would". fuck Peter Molyneux? Fuck us for all being such assholes about it. Without Peter Molyneux coming up with too-big ideas to start with, he couldn't have made the games he is famous for.

The real problem is that the industry needs those big ideas guys, if you want great games. you need to come up with ideas that are too big if you want to push the boundaries. Then you come up against realistic constraints, and you creatively fudge things, and cut things down to size, to make a practically-creatable game. The danger is that we're now pillorying visionaries and demanding that devs deliver "realistic" games where the original concept pitch is 100% what is delivered at the end. People are going to stop reaching for greater heights if we treat everyone like that. We don't need "reasonable" devs who deliver exactly what's promised, because that only prioritizes mediocrity, we need unreasonable people who ask for too much out of the hardware and systems.

I don't think it's being an asshole to expect if not the truth, at least some vague relation to it. It's good to have big ideas, but false advertising is not.

Molyneux was just a liar, when it came down to it. A snake oil salesman. He promised far too much, and when it became clear he wouldn't be able to deliver on those promises he still talked about them as if they'd be in the game.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: [Tho] It is made of raw. It creates extra posts [#####+] (Happy thread)
« Reply #186100 on: July 25, 2018, 12:40:10 pm »

Peter Molyneux is the God of Lies.

He doesn't make promises and then slowly walk them back as feasibility is discovered, he makes enormous statements and actively maintains them as fact up until the day he has a lot of everyone's money, then just sort of vanishes until he runs out of dough again.
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TamerVirus

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Re: [Tho] It is made of raw. It creates extra posts [#####+] (Happy thread)
« Reply #186101 on: July 25, 2018, 12:55:36 pm »

Ah yes, Mr. Tap on this digital cube for a chance at a 'life-changing' prize.
Said prize being a 'digital god' in a game that was dead on arrival.
Yay?
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hector13

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Re: [Tho] It is made of raw. It creates extra posts [#####+] (Happy thread)
« Reply #186103 on: July 25, 2018, 02:43:49 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: [Tho] It is made of raw. It creates extra posts [#####+] (Happy thread)
« Reply #186104 on: July 25, 2018, 02:51:41 pm »

I feel like Black and White was the last game Peter Mollynew actually delivered on.

Thoughts? Also, I wonder where I can get that game these days.
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