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[wilsonns]

my suggestion this time, is to our dwarves start big entrerprises, like have more than one shop, and buy more shops in different towns, and create new brands, like "Dwarv'os, your Dwarven morning cereal!", and so, they can own the workshop where they produce his products(the player choose what workshop will be buyable), and them, some of our dwarves can turn into tycoons, with  really big quantities of money in account!

[Bricks]

I'd actually like to see something like that in adventure mode, where you could play a merchant.

[wilsonns]

It would be cool in both modes!(but in Adventure mode wold be cooler)

[alfie275]

They sort of already do that in my fortress, my mayor bought a shop, the first I built, this made him richer, so when I built more shops he could afford them.

[Ghoulz]

I'm not sure if that fits into the era in which the game takes place.

[Neonivek]

I'm not sure if that fits into the era in which the game takes place.

It really doesn't since it contains legal requirements that don't make sense to even exist.

However I think it does in some ways, Which is, in essence, a buisness that has expanded beyond a single locale or the OTHER term for a company.

[Footkerchief]

I'm not sure if that fits into the era in which the game takes place.

It really doesn't since it contains legal requirements that don't make sense to even exist.

I'm not sure I buy that.  Guilds have been around for forever, whether or not they were legally defined, and in ancient Rome, a "collegium" was a legally recognized entity that could look an awful lot like a modern corporation (or a nonprofit, or a book club -- it was a broad term).

e: actually, upon re-reading, I'm not sure what part you and Ghoulz were objecting to.

[Neonivek]

It is really hard to explain it mostly because I barely understand it.

A Company isn't a Guild and it isn't just a buisness. It is a type of Corperation while a guild is an association and at most a buisness.

A Company is a legal person seperate from the owner with the ability to buy and sell goods/services/land, to seek and be sought restitution, and in stuff... The owner is not responsible for what the company does.

[Silverionmox]

my suggestion this time, is to our dwarves start big entrerprises, like have more than one shop, and buy more shops in different towns, and create new brands, like "Dwarv'os, your Dwarven morning cereal!", and so, they can own the workshop where they produce his products(the player choose what workshop will be buyable), and them, some of our dwarves can turn into tycoons, with  really big quantities of money in account!

- Have more than one shop: Expanding beyond a certain limit would necessitate the original dwarf to delegate the responsibility to another dwarf, who would be perfectly capable of starting his own shop, since the tools of the trade are relatively cheap.

- Buy more shops in different towns: In medieval times, different towns had different coinage, different laws, different customs, different language, different families, different nobles, different measures, etc. Lack of a nationalized trade structure would severely cripple this.

- create new brands: They did care about their brand, but brands would be tied to a region (eg. Parmesan cheese) or a family/particular shop (eg. gobelins became the standard name for wall tapestry). Branding didn't happen because of the lack of mass media, the slower pace of the economy, and a social structure centred around family ties and regional affiliations.

-they can own the workshop where they produce his products: That could happen, though to be able to sell them as his products, he would still need to be involved in the production process, even if only in the design or the finishing touches. Even so, actual quality should go further, for dwarves at least.

- tycoons, with  really big quantities of money in account!: Banking was rather undeveloped in 1400 AD, and I presume Toady prefers to stick with the period where they carry bags of gold around, guarded by men-at-arms, for dramatic reasons.


So in general, I think accumulating big fortunes should happen by having the title and the rights of territory (nobility), trading (merchants) or actually producing stuff (master artisans). Actually owning shops they don't use themselves should be avoided to avoid making it into a positive feedback game of monopoly, with one dwarf owning the world. This will be balanced in-game through guild actions, communication difficulties (the guy running your shop in another town will effectively run it for himself, and that's not profitable for you) and loyalties to the local groups and families rather than contracts and property rights.

[Tibbles]

Buy more shops in different towns: In medieval times, different towns had different coinage, different laws, different customs, different language, different families, different nobles, different measures, etc. Lack of a nationalized trade structure would severely cripple this.

Civilizations in Dwarf Fortress have a standardized currency system, language and code of laws that is shared throughout the civilization.

[Silverionmox]

Buy more shops in different towns: In medieval times, different towns had different coinage, different laws, different customs, different language, different families, different nobles, different measures, etc. Lack of a nationalized trade structure would severely cripple this.

Civilizations in Dwarf Fortress have a standardized currency system, language and code of laws that is shared throughout the civilization.

That's a placeholder. Even if colonization from a central point remains the norm, the lack of contact will make diverging customs inevitable. Coins are different for all fortresses already. There are different nobles everywhere. Different group memberships, although they don't have an impact yet, etc.

[Granite26]

Buy more shops in different towns: In medieval times, different towns had different coinage, different laws, different customs, different language, different families, different nobles, different measures, etc. Lack of a nationalized trade structure would severely cripple this.

Civilizations in Dwarf Fortress have a standardized currency system, language and code of laws that is shared throughout the civilization.

That's a placeholder. Even if colonization from a central point remains the norm, the lack of contact will make diverging customs inevitable. Coins are different for all fortresses already. There are different nobles everywhere. Different group memberships, although they don't have an impact yet, etc.

The Medici are about in period (mid 1400's) and they basically started all this.

Plus, remember that currency differences don't much matter when your currency is a store of value.

Finally, the modern idea of the corporation was developed in direct response to the need to extract profit from newly opened areas (Portugal's asian stuff, Everyone else's new world stuff).  This makes an excellent model for how a new dwarffort works...  (High front end investment that no one person is rich enough to make).

[Silverionmox]

The Medici and the banking improvements are indeed happening in the century after 1400 AD.  I suspect that's one of the reasons it's 1400 and not 1500. If metal coin is the store of value, then obviously there aren't much papers around that have value as financial instrument..

I'd rather say that it was a lot like the German eastward colonization. Lots of peasants migrating, attracted by free land and low taxes. Corporations were necessary to fund ships, because you can't do anything with half a ship. Peasants can still go where they want by foot, and see where they end up.

[Granite26]

Could be... could be... especially for the migrants.   OTOH, I think the initial 7 show up with a little too much stuff to be peasants (and who has that much money and is still going to strike off with six guys to dig a new cave?)


Edit :  Atrocious grammar

[sproingie]

+1 on this, I'd like to see guilds form up and start exerting influence.

The legal personhood of a corporation is a relatively new invention, less than 150 years old.   In fact, the notion of limited liability isn't much older than that.  Before then, they simply offered a means of spreading the risk of joint ventures.