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[Footkerchief]

The legal personhood of a corporation is a relatively new invention, less than 150 years old. 

Do you happen to have a cite for this?  I was unable to find a good free source on the history of corporate law.

[Neonivek]

+1 on this, I'd like to see guilds form up and start exerting influence.

The legal personhood of a corporation is a relatively new invention, less than 150 years old.   In fact, the notion of limited liability isn't much older than that.  Before then, they simply offered a means of spreading the risk of joint ventures.

The real issue is that the topic creator used a word without realising the implications of what a company is. (Which is understandable.)

Frankly judging by the responses he meant buisness chains.

If you mean something other then a buisness chain or powerful guilds then I'd like this topic to define their terms.

In fact, please define Company please.

[Granite26]

4 people

[buman]

The alleged oldest commercial corporation in the world, the Stora Kopparberg mining community in Falun, Sweden, obtained a charter from King Magnus Eriksson in 1347.

wikipedia is a wonderful thing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation

[Footkerchief]

The alleged oldest commercial corporation in the world, the Stora Kopparberg mining community in Falun, Sweden, obtained a charter from King Magnus Eriksson in 1347.

wikipedia is a wonderful thing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation

Yeah, but it's not cited.  I found like a zillion different claims for the oldest company, most of them obviously ignoring the ancient world.

[Silverionmox]

Could be... could be... especially for the migrants.   OTOH, I think the initial 7 show up with a little too much stuff to be peasants (and who has that much money and is still going to strike off with six guys to dig a new cave?)


Edit :  Atrocious grammar

Uncultivated land owners, i.e. nobility. (and religious orders, which were rife with nobles anyway). It didn't happen as a commercial venture, because there always was some lord who had the rights on the land, as opposed to land overseas. Additionally, that costs a lot of money, the town might never grow if it happens to be in a bad site, and the profits take generations to reach attractive levels. A noble family is more secure in its rights to the land, and can invest in the patrimony. Dwarves, with their longer lifespans, might look a bit differently at that though.

[sproingie]

The legal personhood of a corporation is a relatively new invention, less than 150 years old.

Do you happen to have a cite for this?  I was unable to find a good free source on the history of corporate law.

Sure, Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad, an 1886 SCOTUS case.  Before then the "fictional person" of a corporation was an accounting entity, that's the case that actually granted 'em rights.

The Dutch East India Company (well before it actually had a name) is probably the first company traded on a stock exchange.  The UK's Limited Liability Act of 1855 made shareholders no longer directly liable to their creditors.

Not that any of it has to do with dwarves or guilds or companies in the game...

[Footkerchief]

I meant a cite for the claim that there were no previous notions of the legal personhood of corporations.

[buman]

The alleged oldest commercial corporation in the world, the Stora Kopparberg mining community in Falun, Sweden, obtained a charter from King Magnus Eriksson in 1347.

wikipedia is a wonderful thing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation

Yeah, but it's not cited.  I found like a zillion different claims for the oldest company, most of them obviously ignoring the ancient world.

The problem is that hardly any records exist for that time period so any "cited reference" is going to be for a modern book commenting on few remaining documents that might not even be accurate. The search to reliably prove early corporations via citation would be impossible I fear.

[Silverionmox]

Society was much more personal than it is today. People took oaths, instead of signing contracts, and were expected to keep them due to social pressure. Most people wouldn't be able or willing to move even to another town, because that would put them out of reach of their familial and social networks. Merchants in the late middle ages relied on offices of their city, kind of an embassy/consulate but less official, in other cities for support in case of trouble, or even just for logistics (lodging etc.). That was necessary: if a merchant from Danzig would depart in Bruges without paying for his goods, it wouldn't be unthinkable to demand restitution from the next merchant from Danzig; they were from the same city after all.

[Tibbles]

What I think here is that we're relying on real life logic to dictate actions in a fantasy world.

Real Life Medieval:
The costs and challenges involved in moving this grain between two or more villages and setting up offices in all of these villages is exhorbiant. It would be far easier to just sell my grain here. Furthermore, the social challenges involved would be immense.

Dwarf Fortress:
A group of Dwarves who live in an underwater glass castle spend their time fighting zombie whales and making necklaces from the bones of werewolves. Fuck distance or language, think of the oppourtunities.

[Silverionmox]

Sure, that should be possible. It will be all the more fun, however, if that happens in a consistent world, and not one that has been fudged from the beginning. We'll be better off by modeling the game rules to reality for the sake of consistency and verisimilitude, and modify a few variables afterward to give the player some slack, rather than to ignore physics from the get-go.

In any case, the starting set-up is a few mountainhomes in the middle of a vast empty wilderness. There's plenty of opportunity there. I don't see it as problematic that there are areas that are hard or impossible to reach for regular settlers, anyway: that's what adventurers are for.

[Granite26]

Society was much more personal than it is today. People took oaths, instead of signing contracts, and were expected to keep them due to social pressure. Most people wouldn't be able or willing to move even to another town, because that would put them out of reach of their familial and social networks. Merchants in the late middle ages relied on offices of their city, kind of an embassy/consulate but less official, in other cities for support in case of trouble, or even just for logistics (lodging etc.). That was necessary: if a merchant from Danzig would depart in Bruges without paying for his goods, it wouldn't be unthinkable to demand restitution from the next merchant from Danzig; they were from the same city after all.

How do you keep social pressure in a sandbox game, though?

[Silverionmox]

Society was much more personal than it is today. People took oaths, instead of signing contracts, and were expected to keep them due to social pressure. Most people wouldn't be able or willing to move even to another town, because that would put them out of reach of their familial and social networks. Merchants in the late middle ages relied on offices of their city, kind of an embassy/consulate but less official, in other cities for support in case of trouble, or even just for logistics (lodging etc.). That was necessary: if a merchant from Danzig would depart in Bruges without paying for his goods, it wouldn't be unthinkable to demand restitution from the next merchant from Danzig; they were from the same city after all.

How do you keep social pressure in a sandbox game, though?

Grudges, group memberships, status in a group, status vs. a group (eg. civ enemies), (un)happy thoughts, etc... to keep close to the things that already have a placeholder in the game.

[Granite26]

I'm thinking less DF mode and more Adventure mode which has a vested interest in letting players pick up and wander 3 countries over...