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[scrdest]

That depends. What is CPS?

Child Protection Services, I presume.

[Sappho]

There are social services for children, but why is that relevant? Because the dad was going to spank his son once in his entire life? He's not an abusive father. That boy is spoiled silly. One spanking is hardly child abuse, and I'm quite sure that, assuming it did happen after I left, it wasn't anything bad. The father was more upset about having to do it than the son was about it happening. He is quite likely to have changed his mind and not done it after all.

Is that really the only thing you took from my post?

[Skyrunner]

... well, a lot of your post was talking about the kid and potential spanking. And you fearing leaving the child alone with his father. I'd say that Joshua's reaction is acceptable,

Course, there's still the other half. Which joshua probably can't  feel empathy for >_<

[JoshuaFH]

The spanking was the least worrisome thing actually, I'm thinking I may have drawn a picture of a deeply, emotionally disturbed father. But hey, I don't know the guy, I don't know what's socially acceptable in that culture...

I'd comment on more, but I'm simply unable to. Please don't feel I'm being insensitive.

Course, there's still the other half. Which joshua probably can't  feel empathy for >_<

Yeah, this.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

He sounds like an extremely dangerous and unstable individual, child abuse or no child abuse.

[Pnx]

<snip>

That's... seriously pretty awful Sappho, I'm not sure what you could do about it either.

It's stuff like that that just... generally makes me not want to get into the whole romance thing.

EDIT: Or the drinking thing for that matter.

[Darkmere]

Alright here's my take on it:

If (and ONLY if) this was an isolated incident with the father, call him up later after you've had some time to calm down and process it, and tell him in a very firm, matter-of-fact tone what he did and make it clear that a) he is not to drink near you again and b) if he even THINKS about putting moves on you, you will tell his wife and take the issue up with  (Czech social services).

I get the impression that the guy just had a breakdown and felt helpless. But tough shit that's no excuse to treat you or his son like that. Make it clear that he needs to handle his issues, but do it over the phone first.

Second, I don't really think there's "too far" in terms of a rejection. If a guy starts hitting on you, be polite, but firm the first time. Say you aren't interested and are seeing someone else (even if you aren't). If that doesn't work and they don't move off and leave you alone (i.e. they don't respect you at all), kick to the balls and/or pepper spray and leave. Some guys really are just drunk idiots, but some need ... stronger persuasion to move on. If the latter doesn't work for you, you may want to stick closer to your friends and make sure they're aware of your wishes, and willing to back you up in that situation.

[Sappho]

Course, there's still the other half. Which joshua probably can't  feel empathy for >_<

I'unno about you lot, but I've got shock and indignation out of the other half. Do people need to experience it to be taken aback by the events described?

 I'm very sorry that people would put you through that, Sappho.

Thanks. To those who say you "can't" feel empathy, presumably you are men.

Spoiler: For possible triggers again, but I hope you guys will read this. (click to show/hide)

Do you think men can't be raped? That this is just a lady problem that you shouldn't trouble yourself with? Imagine that you wake up tomorrow and suddenly the world is full of very large, very strong men who think your ass is just the hottest thing they've ever seen. They start touching you suggestively and suggesting you wear tighter clothes and smile more. If you object, they get angry and demand to know why you refuse to take a compliment properly. Now and then, one of them corners you and says that hey, just because you're straight, that doesn't mean you can't appreciate a little attention. Doesn't mean you can't make out with a guy a little every once in a while. I don't care how big and strong you are, these guys are bigger and stronger and they are not used to being told No.

Even if nothing serious ever happens to you, imagine how it feels to walk through the world like that, every day of your life, knowing that all it would take is for one of these big guys to have one drink too many or decide he's been rejected too many times and he deserves to take what he wants. And when you try to tell someone about it, they roll their eyes and say hey, it's not like any of them have ever raped you. It's not their fault for finding you attractive. Just relax and enjoy it. And if god forbid anything ever does happen, it will be your fault. You were dressed too suggestively, or you dared to enjoy a drink with your friends at a party, or you "led him on" by not telling him to fuck off immediately (although, of course, if you do that you're an uptight ball-busting bitch who is probably a lesbian and a virgin and ugly and stupid anyway). Maybe you allowed him to buy you a drink, because you were afraid of what might happen if you refused, so obviously you owe him. Imagine that this is your whole life, every day, and you're never, ever, ever supposed to talk about it.

I think the world might be a slightly better place if every man on the planet, at least once in his life, closed his eyes and tried to imagine, really, properly imagine, going through that, living in that world, feeling that way all the time. But that would be unpleasant, so most men just say "I sure am glad it's not my problem" and even if they never do anything inappropriate, they also never do a thing to help.

Sorry, guys, I'm still very shaken and sick to my stomach and the people on this forum have always been so friendly and supportive, I guess I was expecting a little more empathy. Thank you to those of you who at least try to understand why I'm so upset and offer any encouragement or suggestions.

[Frumple]

Yeah... just as a support thing -- I haven't been in that particular sort of situation, but one where physical safety (both direct in the assault sense and otherwise) is under fairly constant threat... that sort of thing. That's been my life to date. Different sort of thing -- I've just been in a community where a large portion of the population are bigots and very willing to hurt and/or ruin (socially, economically, etc.) people who aren't -- but that kind of omnipresent threat, that steady and seemingly inescapable pressure... yeah. And being cornered, so to speak (objecting [disconnecting], being met with anger [being followed, physically or otherwise] -- not being able to make it stop, or get away) -- definitely the worst of it.

Most I can say is it's been unpleasant. I haven't really dealt with it beyond basically being a hermit and experiencing very, very little social contact. S'fucked me up pretty badly, too, heh. Paranoia, badly stunted social skills, a lot of et ceteras, so forths, and so ons. I don't exactly regret it, because the number of people I grew up around that were genuinely decent individuals could be counted on one hand (in a population of ~500 in the town I grew up in, a few hundred more in the one I went to school most of the years) and if I had tried to mingle, I probably would have ended up trying to kill someone (myself or the bastards that consisted of the local population), but staying out of it had a helluva' cost.

The closest I could get to advice is... I'unno, find better guys to hang with? Social venues that attract at least a higher ratio of tolerable individuals*. Social expectancies*** have twisted a lot of the gender** into (conditionally activated) scum, but it's not entirely pervasive. S'a hell of a task, though, especially if you're going to parties and out drinking and whatnot. Avoided that stuff like the plague, m'self, but distanced observations have seemed to consistently show they attract the near worst of folks, especially when intoxicants get involved.

Just... find a way to make yourself safe? Or at least feel safe. Gods know I don't know how, and haven't figured it out entirely myself (I keep a knife on me as habit these days, but I'm well aware it's kinda' useless and at most a psychological panacea), but from what I understand that's the general idea. S'just... not easy to do, especially when you're more aware of/attentive to what's going on around you.

In any case, what you're going through is not uncommon, from what I understand. You're not alone with it, etc., etc. I wish I could link to some folks that have found a way to function through (in spite of) it, but it's not something I've kept a repository around on. Just... I want to say the situation'll get better. It might. More likely, you'll find how you deal with it, functioning through it, etc., or at least get better at it. It might take years. It might take decades. It honestly might not happen at all, but... hope? Continued effort? Something. Feels, Sapph. Y'don't deserve it.

*Fair to state, I don't actually know what good options there are, unfortunately.
**Being fair, this is true both ways. Most people seem to be pretty terrible people under certain conditions.
***

They think they have the right to expect me to look nice for them, to tell me how I should look, to "help" me make myself more attractive to men.

This is actually a probable example. I think in (at least some, if not all) that's not the thought processing going through their heads; rather, the social state as it is has conditioned them to see women who look nice (physically), are attractive (behaviorally), etc., as those that are happy and healthy (physically and otherwise). The natural conclusion to this is that if you want to help a woman**** (be happier and healthier), then you should be trying to help them look better and act with a great attention toward attraction of the opposite sex. It's important to note that that's utter bullshit, but it's also an incredibly pervasive bullshit that's so strongly pushed by the media/etc. that it sinks in and gets internalized for a lot of people. Which in turn leads to all sorts of rather unwanted behavior, that may or may not be initiated under the best of intentions.
****Or rather, help a person -- there's a similar set of shallow bullshit conditions attached to the other gender, of course.

[scrdest]

Course, there's still the other half. Which joshua probably can't  feel empathy for >_<

I'unno about you lot, but I've got shock and indignation out of the other half. Do people need to experience it to be taken aback by the events described?

 I'm very sorry that people would put you through that, Sappho.

Thanks. To those who say you "can't" feel empathy, presumably you are men.

Spoiler: For possible triggers again, but I hope you guys will read this. (click to show/hide)

Do you think men can't be raped? That this is just a lady problem that you shouldn't trouble yourself with? Imagine that you wake up tomorrow and suddenly the world is full of very large, very strong men who think your ass is just the hottest thing they've ever seen. They start touching you suggestively and suggesting you wear tighter clothes and smile more. If you object, they get angry and demand to know why you refuse to take a compliment properly. Now and then, one of them corners you and says that hey, just because you're straight, that doesn't mean you can't appreciate a little attention. Doesn't mean you can't make out with a guy a little every once in a while. I don't care how big and strong you are, these guys are bigger and stronger and they are not used to being told No.

Even if nothing serious ever happens to you, imagine how it feels to walk through the world like that, every day of your life, knowing that all it would take is for one of these big guys to have one drink too many or decide he's been rejected too many times and he deserves to take what he wants. And when you try to tell someone about it, they roll their eyes and say hey, it's not like any of them have ever raped you. It's not their fault for finding you attractive. Just relax and enjoy it. And if god forbid anything ever does happen, it will be your fault. You were dressed too suggestively, or you dared to enjoy a drink with your friends at a party, or you "led him on" by not telling him to fuck off immediately (although, of course, if you do that you're an uptight ball-busting bitch who is probably a lesbian and a virgin and ugly and stupid anyway). Maybe you allowed him to buy you a drink, because you were afraid of what might happen if you refused, so obviously you owe him. Imagine that this is your whole life, every day, and you're never, ever, ever supposed to talk about it.

I think the world might be a slightly better place if every man on the planet, at least once in his life, closed his eyes and tried to imagine, really, properly imagine, going through that, living in that world, feeling that way all the time. But that would be unpleasant, so most men just say "I sure am glad it's not my problem" and even if they never do anything inappropriate, they also never do a thing to help.

Sorry, guys, I'm still very shaken and sick to my stomach and the people on this forum have always been so friendly and supportive, I guess I was expecting a little more empathy. Thank you to those of you who at least try to understand why I'm so upset and offer any encouragement or suggestions.

Notes:

a) You appear to be overly negative in regards to perception of humans in general. In a situation like that, it's understandable, doubly so because I've been going through feeling like this, but it still skewers your perception. You are depressive, actually, you said it yourself that you cannot sleep, cannot focus, need to cry... And again, I'm not theorizing, I've been there, and I can recognize it when I see it.

b) You need to learn how to react in a dangerous situation - not just to defend yourself, how to avoid a problem that calls for self-defense in the first place. Even a big strong man cannot breathe through a collapsed windpipe or run with a broken leg, or be immune to macing.

c) First, calm down, I'm not saying today, wait a week, a month if you need to, and re-read the last part of your first post. Do you honestly think that every single person with a Y chromosome amongst the couple of millions of people inhabiting Prague is a machiavellian Yandere?

[Owlbread]

I'm trying to find the most sensitive way of saying this, but I think the very powerful sensation of threat and danger that you describe about all the large men around you may be related to your Autism. I'm not saying women don't feel like this normally, it's just that the extreme intensity and universality of it may be symptomatic of the condition. It's very similar to other fears and uncertainties people with Autism describe, the root of the problem being a difficulty in reading people's emotions or a general deficiency in empathy, though the ignorance of those who interact with the sufferer is also a very strong factor.

[Pnx]

I'm trying to find the most sensitive way of saying this, but I think the very powerful sensation of threat and danger that you describe about all the large men around you may be related to your Autism. I'm not saying women don't feel like this normally, it's just that the extreme intensity and universality of it may be symptomatic of the condition. It's very similar to other fears and uncertainties people with Autism describe, the root of the problem being a difficulty in reading people's emotions or a general deficiency in empathy, though the ignorance of those who interact with the sufferer is also a very strong factor.

Speaking as someone who knows all about irrational fears and paranoia first hand, I have to say that I think being afraid of a very large man that is very drunk and being very pushy seems like a pretty rational fear to me.

Also, I feel like there might have been some miscommunications in this conversation here, and people might want to carefully reread it.

[Owlbread]

Speaking as someone who knows all about irrational fears and paranoia first hand, I have to say that I think being afraid of a very large man that is very drunk and being very pushy seems like a pretty rational fear to me.

I'm not calling that an irrational fear, I'm saying that to see men like that around you 24/7 seems tied in with Sappho's autism, or at least the autism will exacerbate the problem:

I think the world might be a slightly better place if every man on the planet, at least once in his life, closed his eyes and tried to imagine, really, properly imagine, going through that, living in that world, feeling that way all the time.

That last bit is very important.

I don't mean to belittle anything Sappho has said or divert too much from the original subject, I'm just trying to say there's something else at work here too.

[kaijyuu]

Personally, if I approach someone, hit on them, and get rejected, I try to keep my distance so they don't feel like I'm pushing or they're being threatened (also I'm probably rather embarrassed).

[Sappho]

I'm trying to find the most sensitive way of saying this, but I think the very powerful sensation of threat and danger that you describe about all the large men around you may be related to your Autism. I'm not saying women don't feel like this normally, it's just that the extreme intensity and universality of it may be symptomatic of the condition. It's very similar to other fears and uncertainties people with Autism describe, the root of the problem being a difficulty in reading people's emotions or a general deficiency in empathy, though the ignorance of those who interact with the sufferer is also a very strong factor.

It's not an autism thing. It's a "being female" thing. We are not supposed to talk about it, but slowly, we are starting to talk anyway, mostly on the internet where it's at least physically "safe." That's the only reason I felt like it might be safe to share my story on this forum, although now I feel that maybe it was a mistake after all.

Almost every woman I've ever met has admitted feeling victimized and harassed on a regular basis, and most women will admit, at least to other women, that we always have to treat every man as a potential rapist, otherwise we get raped (and sometimes we get raped anyway). A frighteningly large percentage of my friends have been raped AT LEAST ONCE in their lives, and several more were nearly raped but managed to escape. Girls DO feel that way ALL THE TIME. Not just me. Girls in general. Maybe not every single one, but a pretty huge percentage. We're not supposed to talk about it, and men certainly don't want to hear about it. The only way I can try to communicate the FACT of that ever-present threat is to tell men to imagine there are large men everywhere who are constantly hitting on you. Sure, most of them are probably not rapists. Most of them probably even mean well. But let's say that 1 in 4 men get ass raped at least once in their lives by one of these huge men, which is precisely the statistic for women, and imagine living in a world where you constantly need to be on your guard for that.

My point is not that every man is a rapist (though we have to treat every new man as though he is one, just in case). It's that so many men feel that it's my responsibility to be attractive to him. He has the right to tell me to smile, or that I'd be so much prettier if I wore tighter clothes. They think it's okay to touch me, to hit on me when I say I'm not interested. This happens EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE. Every single day. I am not imagining this. This is how the world works. I get touched inappropriately in public, in broad daylight, all the time. It's upsetting me to realize just how little men understand what it is like to be a girl.

Have a look at this web site. It's about the "Everyday Sexism" project where women are invited to share their experiences with sexism and unwanted advances. Read it. Seriously. http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/the-womens-blog-with-jane-martinson/2013/jan/15/shouting-back-women-fighting-street-harassment

I would like it very much if other female B12ers would post here and share their thoughts. I know I'm not the only girl here and it's hard for me to convince the mob of guys here that I'm not just the exception to the rule.

And no, I don't mean to say that I think every man is terrible. Of course not. I have many good friends who are men who I would trust with my life. The problem is not these men that I trust, it's all the other men. Most of them are probably harmless, but enough of them are NOT harmless that I always have to be on guard. Rapists don't wear a special name tag to warn us they're coming. Most of them don't even consider themselves rapists. Keep in mind that if something happens to me, most people will try to find a way to say it's my own fault. This is a real and actual thing that happens every single day.

And as for "avoiding dangerous situations," yesterday I was 1. at an English lesson with a boy I tutor every week, in the playground next to his preschool and 2. at a party at one of my closest friend's flat. First one, I was in public in broad daylight and others were watching and doing nothing. Second one, I was surrounded by friends - just one jerk got into the party and ruined my night. If he had tried a little harder, he could have physically pulled me into another room and forced himself on me. There was too much noise and chaos for anyone to notice something like that.

I'm mostly upset right now because I realize that most of you are trying to persuade me that I shouldn't be as upset as I am. Like I don't have the right to be traumatized just as long as I wasn't actually raped. Like I don't have the right to be afraid, when statistics and friends and life keep telling me that there is every reason to be afraid.