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[kaijyuu]

You're generally going to get advice instead of sympathy on a forum like this. (though no guarantees about it being good advice, of course)

[Owlbread]

I'm conscious that whatever I say here will offend you so I'm wary of continuing with this. I know and understand that everyday sexism exists, that women do experience feelings like this on a regular basis. I understand that you are feeling emotional right now about this, Christ knows my heart goes out to you here, but I request that you read my statement again carefully. I never said that it was "just an autism thing" for you, I said that the fact that you have autism makes it worse.

[sjm9876]

-snip-

I wasn't going to reply earlier as I felt I had nothing worthwhile to say, but I just want to say you have my sympathies.
I am a guy, so I can't say whether all girls feel that way, but it is perfectly possible, and i am aware of a couple who have similar problems that they have told me about. And it is perfectly well founded. I avoid people like the men described and that results in me avoiding a large proportion of guys. And this is in the UK, which holds itself as a paragon of civility a lot of the time. Forgive me if I'm stereotyping but I imagine it is much worse in mainland Europe.

Spoiler: ninja'd by owlbread. Sorry. (click to show/hide)

Regardless, even if hypothetically it was related to autism, that doesn't make it any less of a problem. That's like taking someone in pain and dismissing it because it's due to something difficult to treat. Again, forgive me if I'm overreacting/misinterpreted Owlbread's comment, but I suffer from some degree of aspergers and depression, and know a number of others who do, and so i feel rather strongly on the subject.

[kaijyuu]

I will note that any serious discussion about this should probably wait until after all relevant parties have calmed down. Then we can have a rational discussion about what people here can do differently and whatnot. Until then, I'd try to have discussion just be sympathies to a victim.

[Bauglir]

I hope that, if you go back, he doesn't repeat his actions. I hope that, in general, people stop treating other people as resources for whatever it is that they want. I hope that people learn the difference between being straightforward and being imposing. I hope things get better, I guess.

Advice wouldn't help - you're not at fault here. I haven't got anything applicable, anyway. Just that it's okay for you to feel what you do, and I wish this was a world that didn't give you a reason to.

[Kansa]

I'm sorry that any of that happened to you Sappho and I hope that things get better for you soon.

[Sappho]

Thank you guys for the sympathetic comments. I can see that at least a few of you understand why I wrote what I did, and that helps a bit. I think I will leave the discussion now, because the more I think about it, the more upset I get. I don't know how to make things any better. I can't control the actions of other people, and apparently I can't make myself unattractive enough to avoid the attention of men. And I don't want to hide in my apartment forever and never socialize. The world is not a fair place and it would be foolish to expect it to be. I just wish there were some way I could live my life and be happy without putting myself at risk.

Anyway I will watch cartoons now and see if I can get any writing done at all for my NaNoWriMo, which I haven't touched today. Maybe tomorrow I'll try to meet a friend or two, if I'm ready to face the world again.

[Pnx]

I'm conscious that whatever I say here will offend you so I'm wary of continuing with this. I know and understand that everyday sexism exists, that women do experience feelings like this on a regular basis. I understand that you are feeling emotional right now about this, Christ knows my heart goes out to you here, but I request that you read my statement again carefully. I never said that it was "just an autism thing" for you, I said that the fact that you have autism makes it worse.

I don't know how Sappho feels about this sort of thing, but personally when someone says something like, "Have you considered you only feel the way you do because you're autistic?" It can be more than a little bit offensive to me.

I mean, not only is it a very dismissive thing to say about someone, I find myself wondering how you were expecting someone to respond to a statement like that, "oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't realise I was afraid of people raping me because I was autistic?"

Thank you guys for the sympathetic comments. I can see that at least a few of you understand why I wrote what I did, and that helps a bit. I think I will leave the discussion now, because the more I think about it, the more upset I get. I don't know how to make things any better. I can't control the actions of other people, and apparently I can't make myself unattractive enough to avoid the attention of men. And I don't want to hide in my apartment forever and never socialize. The world is not a fair place and it would be foolish to expect it to be. I just wish there were some way I could live my life and be happy without putting myself at risk.

Anyway I will watch cartoons now and see if I can get any writing done at all for my NaNoWriMo, which I haven't touched today. Maybe tomorrow I'll try to meet a friend or two, if I'm ready to face the world again.

Unfortunately the unattractiveness thing is not proof against abuse. In fact it seems to be a bit of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

Don't go thinking it's you that needs to change to prevent this situation.

*hugs*

[Solifuge]

-snip-

-snop-

Hey guys, lets not play the "blame the victim" game, okay? Because that's a horrible thing to do.

Sappho, I'm really sorry. I've been on the receiving end of unwanted advances a number of times, and I know how gross and messed up it can feel when people seem to view you as a goal or object. I've been hit on by girlfriends of my friends behind their backs. I've been the target of very persistent advances made by male and female coworkers I have to see every day. I've had a friend buy me drinks and take advantage of me when I was depressed. I've been approached and hounded by several guys who won't respect my personal space, and don't listen when I tell them frankly that I'm not interested. I've had a gang of ladies twice my age regularly come into the restaurant I was working at, get completely shitfaced, and start calling for me across the room, caressing the seat next to them, and telling them what a great time I could be having. I hate dealing with it, and it makes me feel gross.

You shouldn't have to deal with this. I don't know how best to suggest to deal with it in life in general, but at least in the situation with the father of the kid you're working with, I'd agree with Darkmere. Once you've got some time to calm down, and some emotional distance established, let him know what happened. Tell him that you have sympathy for what he's going through, but that the situation he put you in made you very uncomfortable. If he is unhappy where he is in life, he needs to work on that, and not look to romancing you to fix it. Try to explain why the kid is doing what he's doing like you described for us. If he gets pushy and authoritative about it like you describe, just interrupt him and, gently at first, tell him that you need him to listen to you. I hope you can keep working with the kid... it sounds like a positive influence on both of your lives.

As for guys you run into... a lot of guys are taught by culture (and the shitty romantic plots in most big movies), that they should be persistent, and keep on chasing after a girl they're interested in, doing anything necessary to win her over. Even when she clearly and consistently rejects their advances. I think letting your friends know, and encouraging them to have your back when necessary, might help. I've helped a few friends deal with unwanted advances before, in a variety of situations, and been helped by my friends in return.

When you're on your own, it can be harder. Sometimes it only needs a firm "No", and someone will get the picture. Sometimes it requires telling the person you're in a relationship already, or lying about your orientation; I have learned not to generally tell people I'm open to dating guys, for instance, since it saves me a lot of unwanted advances from guys I'm not interested in. Sometimes, it requires removing yourself from the situation, and leaving the person making the advances no way to contact or follow you; at the restaurant where I had to dodge cougars and such, I'd hide in the kitchen and switch to doing food preparation and plating for a bit, while my coworkers took over on the floor for me.

Anyway, I hope this helps. And I hope you can find ways to keep it from happening that don't require you to compromise what you'd like to wear and do and be in life. Good luck.

[Dutchling]

*sympathetic comment*

[scrdest]

-snip-

-snop-

Hey guys, lets not play the "blame the victim" game, okay? Because that's a horrible thing to do.

Seriously, you're pulling the victim-blaming card here?

Nobody said - nobody even implied - that Sappho is guilty, fully or partially, of other people making unwanted advances on her. Or that she does not deserve sympathies for having to endure a situation like that.

What was said was:
a) That it's a good idea to learn how to defend yourself in a situation like that, and
b) That impaired ability to read other people's behavior might somewhat affect how others' behavior is perceived.

What was not said was:
a) Sappho is responsible for other people being dicks to her
b) Quoth Pnx, "Have you considered you only feel the way you do because you're autistic?"

[Solifuge]

Lets also not have a repeat of the anti-feminism shadow argument that keeps lurking around, and refusing to die. That said:

a) You appear to be overly negative in regards to perception of humans in general. In a situation like that, it's understandable, doubly so because I've been going through feeling like this, but it still skewers your perception. You are depressive, actually, you said it yourself that you cannot sleep, cannot focus, need to cry... And again, I'm not theorizing, I've been there, and I can recognize it when I see it.

A) PNX didn't say anything about Sappho feeling that way because of autisum. That was Owlbread, unless you're talking about another instance? Moreover, blaming Autism/Depression/her psychology for the way she feels IS blaming Sappho. And it's ignoring the obvious fact that the real problem is that these guys are being disrespectful and making inappropriate advances, and completely ignoring the signs Sappho is giving them to step the fuck off. It's their fault, yet clearly "it is just her Depression/Autism that's making her imagine things." Seriously? That's a step away from "She might be saying no, but she probably really wants it."

b) You need to learn how to react in a dangerous situation - not just to defend yourself, how to avoid a problem that calls for self-defense in the first place. Even a big strong man cannot breathe through a collapsed windpipe or run with a broken leg, or be immune to macing.

B) Learning to defend herself physically is a good idea, but it's not her responsibility to resolve the situation. Again, it's the responsibility of the guys making the advances to stop. She should not have to train and prepare to collapse someone's windpipe, to earn the right to wear what she'd like to, and have her saying "No" be taken seriously.

c) First, calm down, I'm not saying today, wait a week, a month if you need to, and re-read the last part of your first post. Do you honestly think that every single person with a Y chromosome amongst the couple of millions of people inhabiting Prague is a machiavellian Yandere?

C) This is not Y-Chromosome-Hating "Female Hysterics". Why are you trying to tell her that she has to calm down, and implying that "She must hate every man in Prague!" like this was all just her fault or false perception? Her reaction here is a very sensible response to being the target of skeevy assholes who don't respect her or her personal space. She doesn't need to "Calm down". She's in the right, not the people doing things to her.

[Pnx]

b) That impaired ability to read other people's behavior might somewhat affect how others' behavior is perceived.
...
b) Quoth Pnx, "Have you considered you only feel the way you do because you're autistic?"

Honestly, I think my statement is a pretty accurate summary of the subtext here.

Plus I'd like to say this is basically tantamount to saying "You only believe this because you're a big dumb moron", it's a really, really, horrible way to argue with someone.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Sappho, on the subject of the kid's deconstructive urge: You should see if you can get him something magnetic or building/destroying oriented to use. I'm not autistic, but I'm fairly certain I know the feeling he's describing, and getting him to just stop will be all but impossible.

[Owlbread]

I don't know how Sappho feels about this sort of thing, but personally when someone says something like, "Have you considered you only feel the way you do because you're autistic?" It can be more than a little bit offensive to me.

I mean, not only is it a very dismissive thing to say about someone, I find myself wondering how you were expecting someone to respond to a statement like that, "oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't realise I was afraid of people raping me because I was autistic?"

That's a massive misinterpretation of everything I've just said. Everything. I would prefer to continue that in PMs though because that is such a misinterpretation and made me so angry, I don't want to say anything here that may cause problems.

Honestly, I think my statement is a pretty accurate summary of the subtext here.

Plus I'd like to say this is basically tantamount to saying "You only believe this because you're a big dumb moron", it's a really, really, horrible way to argue with someone.

I will keep calm, I won't say what I wanted to say to you, but for the love of god talk to me in PMs before you come out with something like that again.

It's their fault, yet clearly "it is just her Depression/Autism that's making her imagine things." Seriously? That's a step away from "She might be saying no, but she probably really wants it."

You as well. Let's leave things just now but talk to me in PMs if you want to clarify things.