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[atomfullerene]

So I've been thinking, and I've come up with an idea which could be really awesome or really awful, depending.  Any halfway decent player can wall off their enemies, trap them with traps, or generally avoid closing with them and thus remain safe.  But what if, eg, when you hit the HFS it could effect your dwarves mentally.  There are a couple of ways you could go about doing this.  One is, just breaching the HFS and having clowns around could inspire your dwarves to go crazy/melancholy/whatever.  They could give a strange mood sort of status effect, maybe with some bit about hearing voices. 
As an alternative to just going crazy, they could be subverted and actually try to breach the defenses around the HFS.  This would be pretty difficult to implement AI-wise...but an easy way would be to possibly give a miner a strange-mood equivalent which involves mining  adamantium tiles.  Prevent them from doing so and they go crazy eventually, allow them to and you are asking for FUN.  Bonus points if the likelyhood of going crazy is related to the dwarf's mental traits.

Now, on the one hand, this would be really irritating when your legendary craftsdwarf starts hearing voices and goes crazy.  On the other hand, it would make HFS more dangerous and creepy, and make defenses more difficult.  Bonus points if you can figure out how to apply it to sieges.

[Cruxador]

Toady has said HFS will be harder in the next update.

As far as the actual suggestion: I was always under the impression that HFS or its denizens were implied to be the ones causing the moods in the first place.

[Hari Seldon]

Exactly.  So they can create a Mine Adamantium mood.

Hearing voices and going crazy?  Maybe a HFS ranged attack if they attack you.

[irmo]

Rather than having them directly force you to mine adamantine, I would suggest that they give you strange moods that require adamantine. "Dig out the adamantine or Urist here goes insane and dies" is suitably vicious.

(It occurs to me that you can probably get "Lovecraft" as the random name of your fortress. That's when you know you're screwed.)

[Hoborobo234]

Rather than having them directly force you to mine adamantine, I would suggest that they give you strange moods that require adamantine. "Dig out the adamantine or Urist here goes insane and dies" is suitably vicious.

(It occurs to me that you can probably get "Lovecraft" as the random name of your fortress. That's when you know you're screwed.)

Sigg'd

[Servu]

Spoiler: Just in case. (click to show/hide)

When I was new (well newer) to DF and before I found my first HFS, I actually thought that finding/mining adamantium would trigger a slow spiral of insanity in the dwarves that come to contact with it. The idea of a compulsory need to mine adamantium affecting miners is something I expected to really happen after one of my miners got a strange mood after uncovering my first vein.

But as far as difficulty goes, the scariest thing I could imagine is if some of the demons could dig. Imagine yourself looking at the walled off HFS chamber, when suddenly a piece of wall disappears. Then another one turns into a ramp. You hastily construct a giant steel lid above and around the pits and for some time, the chamber seems to cease expanding as it reaches the steel wall. Then, after few minutes, a piece of steel tuns into Warm Steel block wall. Then melts.

So basically, a new demon type that can mine out/deconstruct stone walls other than adamantium (Mole demon?) and Sof with the ability to melt metal ones. Also the possibility of getting multiple flavors of Fun in one Pit. Personally I'd really to see the other clowns get some additional attributes too, for example tentacle demons could attack, grab and pull creatures from few tiles (and z-levels) away, while frogs could slowly generate water around them, allowing them to slowly flood the tunnels and climb higher as the water rises (though this would require the pit itself to be considered water-proof.) Perhaps a mind-oriented demon with the ability to turn dwarves into zombies (i.e. Controller from the Stalker series)

But as far as I know, this all and more could be in the next update. But I guess I'm just getting way too hyped up about this. Who knows if it's just more clowns per circus.

[orbcontrolled]

One possible type of insanity: Dwarf occasionally cancels work, paths as close to the walled-off HFS as possible, and just sits there staring at it for a while before going back to work.
Over time the dwarf will cancel more and more often, and spend more and more time near the HFS. Eventually he does no work and only leaves the HFS to eat/drink
Eventually he stops doing even that, and just stares at the wall until he starves.

Also:
-The dwarf should have some small chance of going berserk any time during the process, depending on how far gone they are, and their personality.

-The message for job cancellation should be random each time, representing the dwarf hallucinating.
ie: -Dwarf hallucinates that his skin is burning off, and cancels his task with the "too injured" message.
-Dwarf hallucinates being attacked and cancels with "interrupted by [random creature]".

[Randall Octagonapus]

I dont think we should have Sof in the hfs with other demons because im pretty sure that they would burn them to death

[profit]

Yeah... I have to agree the pits of hell does not exactly fill me with dread anymore when I find them.. *except I dread the FPS loss until I kill them demons.

I have to admit real spawns of hell and something much more scary would be appropriate...  But not just that, some scaling rewards and options would be nice too...

Maybe if we killed demons and received certain artifact armors for doing so...

Maybe instead of one round the demons should pour out for a duration, perhaps forever... So.. over the life of the HFS and your fortress if you somehow manage to hold them at bay (12?) you would have to kill hundreds of them, with some waves being very tough and numerous... and with different counters so not one defense will stop them every time...   Like... some demons will have trapvoid, some not... some will be fire immune... some will be almost piercing immune but not bludgeon immune, some the other way around... some will have strong ranged attacks, some not...   

Then just throw these after the player until they finally die, cry for mercy, or use adamantium to wall them back in....   *ever seen the writings on the walls in movies, where they warn no mortal to ever break the seal.... Yeah something like this =)

BUT!! for as long as the player wants to RISK having the pits open, they can reap the REWARDS of adamantium, Drops from the demons, perhaps even other things that do not exist in the game yet... Like curses, spells, or even healing methods.. *demons in my mind have always been excellent healers, because they use humans weakness for one and other to get them to make a deal.

Maybe even an option to succumb to the invasion... and in the world your fortress then becomes demon controlled and your dwarves, their little slaves taking on the characteristics of the demon who conquered them...

* demons also need to bring along lackies... Imps, dark elves, deep dwarves, abominations, magma creatures, fire elementals, filth monsters for tentacle demons, ect...

[Chutney]

tentacle demons could attack, grab and pull creatures from few tiles (and z-levels) away

Tentacle demons could become wagon-line creatures

Code: [Select]

sss
s&s
sss
's' is the closest thing to a tentacle i could find

[Hummingbird]

Maybe even an option to succumb to the invasion... and in the world your fortress then becomes demon controlled and your dwarves, their little slaves taking on the characteristics of the demon who conquered them...

There should definitely be an option for the player to sell the dwarves' souls to gain unimaginable power and continue playing as a slave to the demons, doing their every bidding as they wreak vengeance upon the world for their imprisonment. 

[Grendus]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Demon nobles?

As for the comments about demon pits not being scary any more, nothing is scary to the prepared. The concept of the HFS is probably based loosely on Moria from LotR, where Balin's dwarves were not ready. If you don't have multiple groups of champions, cave the place in, or use another form of anti-demon weaponry (such as a cave-in cage trap, a corridor of landmines or thousands of repeating spikes, ballista hallways, etc) it will end your fortress. Demons are INCREDIBLY dangerous, it's just that your dwarves wer even more powerful.

As for demons taking over, I think Toady discussed this. I'm not sure what he said about dwarves, all I remember is that elves would reject the demon for his ethics and humans would probably not worship a demon on a large scale due to xenophobia though he might add functionality for things like demon cults. Threetoe's most recent story suggests the possibility, of course, but letting the demons take over your fort would likely make you an enemy of everyone.

[Servu]

enemy of everyone.

And thats why it would be awesome.
Well that and the demands of Fun.

[Hoborobo234]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Demon nobles?

As for the comments about demon pits not being scary any more, nothing is scary to the prepared. The concept of the HFS is probably based loosely on Moria from LotR, where Balin's dwarves were not ready. If you don't have multiple groups of champions, cave the place in, or use another form of anti-demon weaponry (such as a cave-in cage trap, a corridor of landmines or thousands of repeating spikes, ballista hallways, etc) it will end your fortress. Demons are INCREDIBLY dangerous, it's just that your dwarves wer even more powerful.

As for demons taking over, I think Toady discussed this. I'm not sure what he said about dwarves, all I remember is that elves would reject the demon for his ethics and humans would probably not worship a demon on a large scale due to xenophobia though he might add functionality for things like demon cults. Threetoe's most recent story suggests the possibility, of course, but letting the demons take over your fort would likely make you an enemy of everyone.

It'd be more exciting to come across a pit with no Adimantine surrounding it

[Sordid]

One possible type of insanity: Dwarf occasionally cancels work, paths as close to the walled-off HFS as possible, and just sits there staring at it for a while before going back to work.
Over time the dwarf will cancel more and more often, and spend more and more time near the HFS. Eventually he does no work and only leaves the HFS to eat/drink
Eventually he stops doing even that, and just stares at the wall until he starves.

Now that is creepy.