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Author Topic: A new magma defense idea?  (Read 7847 times)

zchris13

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Re: A new magma defense idea?
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2009, 08:16:54 pm »

The wiki is notoriously inaccurate on subjects at the cutting edge, frequently reflecting passing memes, folklore, or the word on the street instead of true dwarven science.  No dwarven science jokes, please.

Magma will not create mist by falling. That's true.  I THINK that if you drop it through a grate it will. You need to try that.
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Kanddak

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Re: A new magma defense idea?
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2009, 09:00:28 pm »

The wiki is notoriously inaccurate on subjects at the cutting edge, frequently reflecting passing memes, folklore, or the word on the street instead of true dwarven science.  No dwarven science jokes, please.
So very true. I try to be lots of action and little talk, and just post maps, movies, diagrams of things I built that worked, and reports on completed experiments.

Quote
Magma will not create mist by falling. That's true.  I THINK that if you drop it through a grate it will. You need to try that.
I've only ever observed magma mist to be created by cave-ins.
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The wiki is notoriously inaccurate on subjects at the cutting edge, frequently reflecting passing memes, folklore, or the word on the street instead of true dwarven science.

Nexii Malthus

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Re: A new magma defense idea?
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2009, 09:06:15 pm »

Quote
Magma will not create mist by falling. That's true.  I THINK that if you drop it through a grate it will. You need to try that.
I've only ever observed magma mist to be created by cave-ins.
Okay, i'm going to do my own testing to verify.

Setup is that the magma is pumped to fall a few z levels, ample space is given and slowly stepping through to observe what happens.

Test 1, Iron Floor Grate.
- Failed, 7/7 Magma fell right through.

Test 2, Iron Floor Bars.
- Testing.. Failed, 7/7 Magma fell right through.

Test 3, Iron Fortification
- Upcoming..  Testing... Failed, 7/7 Magma hit floor of Fortification (They come with a floor apparently), Magma just spread around it and down.

Conclusion:
- DWARVEN SCIENCE! (Pump overflown a bit and incinerated Pump Operator along with her babies)
- Enough proof that the only way you really are going to get magma mist is via cave-ins.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 09:20:00 pm by Nexii Malthus »
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zchris13

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Re: A new magma defense idea?
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2009, 09:12:17 pm »

Oh snap, there has not been a dwarven science joke yet.
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morikal

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Re: A new magma defense idea?
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2010, 06:31:38 pm »

Oooo this makes me want to do something like:

Have a path which is grated over with some sort of magma-proof substance.

Have a system of many pumps with a single 7/7 magma tile at their source, which will pump it up through a pump stack, to have it fall down through the grate. Have many of these, all connected to power via a single gear, attached to a lever. (The gear can get power from a big dwarven reactor or something).

When enemies show up, stop your dwarves from going there somehow (perhaps have it outside), and pull the lever. With only a single 7/7 magma being tossed around, each tile would be clear some of the time, and so could be pathed through, right? So enemies will start down the path, and get clunked in the head by magma. Would this work, or am I insane?
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Retro

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Re: A new magma defense idea?
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2010, 06:41:36 pm »

morikal: I imagine the magma would fall right through them and the grates or hit them or something and just set them all on fire (or even just most of them, with the stragglers watching in horror as their friends re-enact the 'you have chosen poorly' scene from the Last Crusade).

Nobbins

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Re: A new magma defense idea?
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2010, 07:08:12 pm »

Code: [Select]
= -> wall
+ -> floor
# -> iron floor grate
* -> floor, above this there is a hole that lava falls through

=======
###+++#
#*###*#
#+++###
=======

Code: [Select]
= -> wall
+ -> floor
# -> iron floor grate
* -> floor, above this there is a hole that lava falls through
D -? Door, connected to lever somewhere

=========
D#+#+#+#D
D+*+*+*+D
D#+#+#+#D
=========

I think something like this may work better in general, seeing as you can lock them in and keep dwarves out.
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immibis

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Re: A new magma defense idea?
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2010, 07:32:35 pm »

Quote
Magma will not create mist by falling. That's true.  I THINK that if you drop it through a grate it will. You need to try that.
I've only ever observed magma mist to be created by cave-ins.
Okay, i'm going to do my own testing to verify.

Setup is that the magma is pumped to fall a few z levels, ample space is given and slowly stepping through to observe what happens.

Test 1, Iron Floor Grate.
- Failed, 7/7 Magma fell right through.

Test 2, Iron Floor Bars.
- Testing.. Failed, 7/7 Magma fell right through.

Test 3, Iron Fortification
- Upcoming..  Testing... Failed, 7/7 Magma hit floor of Fortification (They come with a floor apparently), Magma just spread around it and down.

Conclusion:
- DWARVEN SCIENCE! (Pump overflown a bit and incinerated Pump Operator along with her babies)
- Enough proof that the only way you really are going to get magma mist is via cave-ins.

Right. Now try making water fall onto the center tile of a magma pipe continuously, and tell us what happens.
Hypothesis: It'll generate the following things infinitely
1. Magma mist
2. Obsidian (which falls off the bottom of the map)
3. Cave-in spam. (remember to make a way to turn it off!)
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EliDupree

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Re: A new magma defense idea?
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2010, 09:19:12 pm »

Even just a trap that creates obsidian in midair above the invaders and thereby squashes them would be cool, although impractical.

It might not fall when it should, though.
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Sutremaine

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Re: A new magma defense idea?
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2010, 09:51:35 pm »

Then there is the adapted mist generator if I recall it right, capable of burning all who walk into the magma being pumped round in its circuit, avoids pathing and capacity issues, but it is a bit on the vulnerable side to building destroyers in the end.
You can have it set up so that the invaders path through a level underneath the pumps, but magma doesn't stay there very long. I did draw up a plan to maximise the amount of magma being put onto the bottom level, but never got round to building it. (It starts at three tiles wide to start to make it wagon-accessible, and was made wider to absolutely ensure that BDs had no access to the bridges when they were raised.)

Code: [Select]
# = wall
+ = floor
. = empty space
| = raised bridge
_ = raised bridge
% = screw pump
7 = magma stored here
m = magma pumped out here


z 0

###+.|+|.+###
###+.|+|.+###
###+.|+|.+###
###+.|+|.+###
###+.|+|.+###
###+.|+|.+###
###+.|+|.+###
###+.___.+###
###+.....+###
###+++++++###

z+1

7%%.......%%7
###.......###
7%%.......%%7
###.......###
7%%.......%%7
###.......###
7%%.......%%7
###.......###
7%%.......%%7
###.......###

z+2

.%%m.....m%%.
###.......###
.%%m.....m%%.
###.......###
.%%m.....m%%.
###.......###
.%%m.....m%%.
###.......###
.%%m.....m%%.
###.......###

It could be tested by building a single one of those pump stacks and stationing an expendable dwarf under the 'm' tile, but I never got round to that either. Given that the design relies on magma not having time to go anywhere, you could also in theory build the corridor one tile wide and stagger the pumps so that every tile gets magma dropped on it.

Thoughts?
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