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Author Topic: The Flying Machine (Move zig!)  (Read 12982 times)

Sensei

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Re: The Flying Machine (Discussion)
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2009, 11:16:24 pm »

Drawing it top-down and calculating stuff might take a while... When do you plan to start?

Also, bigger ships automatically win over smaller ships. (more crew, more thrust, more weapons.) Simply scaling a smaller design to make it twice as large will effectively double the excess lift and thrust, the firepower, etc, while the ship could still fly just as long without refueling/landing. In my opinion, there should be either a maximum and minimum size (either maximum dimensions, or a maximum number of total tiles), or a penalty for larger ships.

Yeah, I've considered this. Like I said, these were prelimary rules- I'm using them for the game, since people are already going hog wild making flying machines, but expect a second edition with revised rules if this isn't a total disaster.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: The Flying Machine (Entry Requirements Posted)
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2009, 11:58:38 pm »

Oh, what the hell. I'm submitting Bloodfist into this. It may take awhile to convert it into ASCII. You know it, you'll love it, it'll rock.


Spoiler: Reference material (click to show/hide)


Spoiler: Design (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Operation method: (click to show/hide)

I'll turn in the rest tomorrow, provided I have the formula down (weight and such). Done.

Oh Notepad++ and Excel, how I do love thee.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm cleaning up the project page (front especially). It's now going to be links instead of repeats from posts. That way, characters are saved for any more crap I'll fill it with. Speaking of which, I might finally get around to working on the project again.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 01:25:17 am by Itnetlolor »
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Wimdit

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Re: The Flying Machine (Entry Requirements Posted)
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2009, 12:29:46 am »

Drawing it top-down and calculating stuff might take a while... When do you plan to start?

Also, bigger ships automatically win over smaller ships. (more crew, more thrust, more weapons.) Simply scaling a smaller design to make it twice as large will effectively double the excess lift and thrust, the firepower, etc, while the ship could still fly just as long without refueling/landing. In my opinion, there should be either a maximum and minimum size (either maximum dimensions, or a maximum number of total tiles), or a penalty for larger ships.

Yeah, I've considered this. Like I said, these were prelimary rules- I'm using them for the game, since people are already going hog wild making flying machines, but expect a second edition with revised rules if this isn't a total disaster.

If those revised rules are going to penalize ludicrously huge ships then I think I'll wait until they're given to join. The central section of my ship's fuselage alone has over 500 weight. That's not so I can cram masses of stuff on there, mind - it just has an 'interesting' design.
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Sensei

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Re: The Flying Machine (Entry Requirements Posted)
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2009, 12:38:38 am »

When I say 'revised version' I mean, after this instance of the competition is over. The rules right now are not being changed until the race is concluded or we realize I've left something horridly broken.
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Jetsquirrel

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Re: The Flying Machine (Entry Requirements Posted)
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2009, 01:28:53 am »

il join 2 il do it later no time school

EagleV

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Re: The Flying Machine (Entry Requirements Posted)
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2009, 07:01:18 am »

Protip: don't accidentally type ctrl-break instead of ctrl-ins while using ASCIIDraw. It kills.

Redrawing the whole goddamn thing that took me an hour now.

EDIT:
The Ship
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Symbol: @
« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 04:46:32 pm by EagleV »
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Pillow_Killer

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Re: The Flying Machine (Entry Requirements Posted)o
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2009, 08:49:14 am »

Done!

Legend:
That.. Thing.. At.. Top: Kitten-ball launcher. Fires, duh, compressed balls. Made of kittens. That are on fire.
Ke - Kitten-Engine. Powered by!!kittens!!.
Proof of concept:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8309156.stm
o - Exhaust, connected to pipes that are connected to Ke.
+ - Doors
% - Food storage
The-bunch-of-symbols-at-food-storage: Kitchen. Used to cook kittens. And make kitten-balls.
Ship description: THe whole thing is something akin to VTOL. Powered by kittens. Yeah.
Crew is fed, obviously, by kittens, which breed faster than they are burned, so it's a good food source.
Calculations are to be done, now
Weight: 156
Lift: Uh, no idea.
Thrust: 18(A bit higher number because of pressure involved)
Food and boose: 7 days(Food renews, must be processed)
Crew: Two mechanics(One Mechanic/Cook, second Mechanic/ Butcherer) One Cannon Operator, One Captain.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 09:10:51 am by Pillow_Killer »
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qwertyuiopas

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Re: The Flying Machine (Entry Requirements Posted)
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2009, 02:37:52 pm »

Code: [Select]
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     ┬ ││││││\
   ╔═╪═╧╧╧╧╧╧╧╗
├┼┼╫─☼=======π╬
   ║Θ│=======Θ║
├┼┼╫─☼=⌠π⌠π+++╙─┐
   ║Θ☼─☼☼☼☼##+πΦ│
├┼┼╫─☼=π⌡π⌡+++╓─┘
   ║Θ│=======Θ║
├┼┼╫─☼=======π╬
   ╚═╪═╤╤╤╤╤╤╤╝
     ┴ ││││││/
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Symbol: Φ
Code: [Select]
Φ
Sorry about the:
Loss of quality
Incompatibility with [tt]
Lack of colour, unlike the one I have sitting around at home...
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Eh?
Eh!

Boksi

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Re: The Flying Machine (Entry Requirements Posted)
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2009, 06:12:44 pm »

Ack. RTD took longer than expected to get up. Can't post it today. Anyone know a good way to count how many tiles you're using? Because I have a large ship and a lot of zero-weight tiles generating lift.
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[BODY_DETAIL:NAIL:NAIL:NAIL]
[HAMMER:HAMMER:HAMMER]

[TSU_NOUN:nose]
[SUN_TSU_NOUN:art:war]

Itnetlolor

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Re: The Flying Machine (Entry Requirements Posted)
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2009, 06:26:42 pm »

I just thought of something. Are there going to be classes for certain ships/courses?

I mean, my ship is essentially a juggernaut (IE- Heavyweight Class). The background, essential information, and engineering behind it. It would be unfair setting this thing off against smaller ships that require more often stops. Plus, it would also suck for many if I get a bloodlust, and set off on some air-raids. After all, I would have strength in numbers and power considering ballista and crossbow teams; as well as, considering a successful boarding, melee teams.

The only other consideration is crew and food stores. And even so, I have a kitchen and still/brewery within the belly of the ship, along with a well/latrine/skydive/air-raid/booze-bomber hole (depending on how it's used)).


And before I forget EDIT:
How are we supposed to calculate weight/lift/thrust/etc. and other parts for our ship layouts?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 06:30:54 pm by Itnetlolor »
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GlyphGryph

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Re: The Flying Machine (Entry Requirements Posted)
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2009, 06:33:03 pm »

Note: Okay, finished-ish. I'm taking a number of liberties here, so feel free to completely shoot me down, but I'm hoping this is good enough.

Thrust: The rules for thrust seem - odd. Since it means most of your ship needs to be made of thrusters in order to move, which is really strange, since most blimps have just tiny little propellers moving them. And it results in every one of my designs failing miserably. I can't think of a way to figure this one out, so I guess despite my many pulling harpies, I'm going to have to rely on the wind to carry me where I need to go. :P

Weight: 727 - I halfed the value of the roof, since though walkable isn't actually reinforced that much so dwarves may fall through. In addition, I ignored the wight of scaffolding and framing that wasn't walkable/usable, and double the weight of tiles full of water. External walkways and ladders were .5 weight, since they aren't strong enough to support things or really hold more than 1 dwarf.

Lift: 736 = 23 (each 2 tile blade section) x 8(number of blades) x 4 (power bonus, workers/3, defaults to 12 fish. Each dwarf that assists on the top level thus adds a .3 bonus to lift while they work). Technically, this isn't the dimensions in the drawing, but it should be. It just looked stupid that way. since this is powered lift, I'm doubling that value :P. As you can see, I've clearly manipulated this number with my magical powers to make everything work out, but I'm pretty sure its balanced since the default rules just don't make any sense for powered helicopter blade things.

Tile make up, used (nonwater/nonsupport/nonwalkway) space:
Crew size: 6
Beds: 3
Dining area: 12
Navigational area: 14, windows give 140 degrees of view from front of ship
Storage: 23 (weighs 1.5)
Empty Space (Can be used for storage, though it isn't set for that) - 66 (only weighs 1)

Fule Type: Cats (we lost a few occasionally to the harpies, and we need to refuel every time we release the nightwings)

Symbol: §
Ship Name: The Relentless Marsh

Background:
They said we'd be fools to settle where we did. They'd called us mad. We'd built our fortress in a terrifying swamp, on an aquifer, by the ocean, on a river. They said we'd not last out the month, but we did. We lasted out the month, and then the year, and then many years. We did what they said could not be done, and now - now we plan on doing it again.

We have no stone. We have no magma. We have little in the way of useful resources, but we haven't let that stop us. We have one thing that none else would dare rely on, and that none would ever believe would work. But I'll tell you this - we did it before when no one else said we could, and damn it, we'll do it again. They will call us mad once more, but still we. will. win.

Ship Concept:
This ship is powered by the one resource my dwarves had unending access to - the undead. Specifically, undead fish. Also note the Nightwings we release to deal with other ships, and how our ship is entirely composed with thick wood. the viewports can also be closed. The nightwings are trained to return to the hold when they have nothing left to kill, though we never did manage to train them not to kill us, so the ship is always locked down before they are released. This includes shuttering the front and side windows so they cant see us to think about attacking us, though it means we end up flying blind whenever we are in battle.

Many of the walls around the ship have slotted windows, that can be open by a rope pulley system from the navigation room, and closed from their too. My dwarves don't have any crossbows, but conceivably one could shoot from them. Mostly they are for looking at stuff though.


               ___     Level 0 - Weaponized Nightwing hold. these have been tamed,
              |<  |     but having killed dwarves are not trusted. Lots of safeties, switches, cages.
            =|_ò ò_|=
            //====p\\
            ||¬ÑÑѬ||
            || NNN ||
            || NNN ||                   
            ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯           
                       
                           
                   
              _____
             / > < \      Level 1 - First true level. Stairs to Nightwings, stairs to level 2.
            / ____  \      Contains pool zone, occupied by a grate. On what side is attached a
           / /*****\ \     merman cage, the other has several powerful skeletal fish of varying types.
          / |*******| \      There are actually three of these setups surrounding the central pillar
          \ |***O***| /     but it got messy to draw. This is full of water, as well. The fish don't
           \\*M*|s**//      need the water, being skeletons, but they swim better this way.
            \\**|s*//
             \`````/
              -----             



                Y
               YYY         This back here is the bottom of the navigation tail to turn.
                         
              _____
             / [>] \        Level 2 - As previous level, but with hatch going below. Also contains
            / __ò__ \        emergency fish release lever with opens up the floor to drain the pool.
           / /*****\ \       This has the bonus of dumping skeleton fish on whatevers below us.
          / |*******| \     There are 12 large fish total, providing power to the rotors up above.
          \ |***O***| /
           \\*M*|s**//
            \\**|s*//
             \`````/
             / FFFF\
             | FFFF|                 Contains a bunch of food.
             \<FFFF/
              \_o_/
                |
                |
                Y                    Navigation tail.
               YYY

                            _____
                           /OOOOO\         Level 3 - The thrust level, 16 skeleton harpies work
         |--c--c--c--c--|  \     /  |--c--c--c--c--|                     to provide thrust at all time.
         |______________|   |<  |   |______________|           They are induced to fly forwards by
         /  H  H  H  H   \_/     \_/   H  H  H  H  \              the cats dangling in front of them.
         =================[       ]=================  A walkway goes behind then for maintainence
                         /         \            but they are held by a wooden harness.
                        /      oTTo \         Dining area with the best materials we could get.
                        \     OoTTo /        Guaranteed to keep our dwarves happy in bad conditions.
                         \     oTTo/
         |--c--c--c--c--| \       / |--c--c--c--c--|
         |______________|  \     /  |______________|
         /  H  H  H  H   \_/     \_/   H  H  H  H  \
         ==================[     ]==================
                           \> <  /
                            \_o_/
                              |
                              |
                              Y
                             YYY

                            _____
                           /BB BB\           Level 4- Contains the beds and extra supplies.
                           \B   B/ 
                            |>  |   
                           /F   F\    More food and supplies. Just as a note, Food might also imply
                          /F     F\      booze, for now.
                         /F   |   F\ 
                        /F    |    F\
                        \F ---O--- F/       In the middle is the manual copter override.
                         \F   |   F/         Allows dwarves to speed up or slow down by adding force
                          \F  |  F/          to central rod rotation.
                           \F   F/
                           /     \
                           |X < X|      Navigation area, a dwarf or two can turn the ship
                           \ X X /         by turning these to tighten and loosen ropes.
                            \_o_/


                              Y
                             YYY


                            _____
                           /     \              Level 4+ - Roof level. Not normally accessable.
                           \     /              Can be reached by a ladder on either side from the
                            |   |                walkways on level 3.
                           /     \
                          /       \
                         /         \
                        /           \
                        \     O     /     
                         \         /
                          \       /
                           \     /
                           /     \
                           |     |
                           \     /
                            \___/


                              Y
                             YYY




                                                       
                              ||<
                              ||<                 Level 5 - The propeller.
                              ||<                   
                              ||<                   Provides lift. Powered by undead fish.
                              ||<                         
                              ||<
       vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv ||<
       =======================O====================         
                            >||^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                            >||
                            >||
                            >||
                            >||                           
                            >||
                            >||

   ||<
                              ||<                 Level 6 - The second propeller.
                              ||<                   
                              ||<                   Provides lift. Powered by undead fish.
                              ||<                         
                              ||<
       vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv ||<
       =======================O====================         
                            >||^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                            >||
                            >||
                            >||
                            >||                           
                            >||
                            >||

« Last Edit: December 02, 2009, 12:01:46 pm by GlyphGryph »
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Sensei

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Re: The Flying Machine (Entry Requirements Posted)
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2009, 07:14:13 pm »

Lift comes from wings and any thrusters pointing upwards. Weight comes from most tiles, at some roleplaying discretion (Hint: If it allows a dwarf to walk on it as opposed to falling through, or it would block them, it probably has weight). This is all explained, if not well, in the rules.

THE BELOW WILL NOT BE APPLIED TO THIS GAME UNTIL IT IS OVER.

I've been thinking about how to nerf extremely large vessels, like that one plane with a dozen wings or whatever (grrr- why can't I remember the name??).

The most obvious would be a tile limit. Budget cuts, you know! I've also considered being more affected by wind, or putting some division in lift or speed calculations where as you keep getting bigger, weight has to win out. I'll be thinking about it.
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PrinnyBaal

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Re: The Flying Machine (Entry Requirements Posted)
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2009, 08:16:58 pm »

To be honest; the penalty I expected about ponderously large vessels would be rather simple; Inertia. If you're flying something so god-awfully large, you should expect to take forever changing anything, as it takes spectacular periods of time to turn, speed up, or slow down.

The second penalty would definitely be air resistance, making high speeds much harder for massive ships.

I suspect almost all of the large ships are made out of wood as well, if not something else just as light, since well... it's going to be much harder to keep something else floating.

If anything, I'd say to allow them, then making tile counts to specific weight categories, and explaining how specific weight categories have bonuses/penalties. And yes, I said bonuses there. There are reasons one would fly a particularly large ship, I doubt speed should be one of them. Maybe something more like steadiness was the advantage I foresaw for the large ships.

((Still working on the design... for mine.))
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userpay

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Re: The Flying Machine (Entry Requirements Posted)
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2009, 09:29:00 pm »

Something of note, I would think the bigger the wings get the more wind would affect the craft. Just my two cents. At any rate I think I'll see how this one goes and join on the next one.
edit: Also if the craft is small and light that in itself might make the wind affect it more.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 09:55:23 pm by userpay »
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Heron TSG

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Re: The Flying Machine (Discussion)
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2009, 10:13:36 pm »

Yes, I cheated and used alt codes. Crew is three dwarves. Two (Dwarves 1 and 2) to power the propellers with a handcrank (a big one!) and one (Dwarf #3) to flap the wings by pulling on cords. This turns the vessel. Rammbär is built for speed, and in combat it rams the wings of opponents, pulling its own out of the way in the process. The Rammbär cannot take much of a beating, but you can't kill what you can't catch.

Unicode Symbol - Ω


    Rammbär
   TOP DOWN
       Ω
   ««╔╝╩╚╗»»
  «««║FFB║»»»
 ««««║F B║»»»»
 ««««║FBB║»»»»
   «φφ φφ»
 «φφφφφφφφφ»
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« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 11:07:22 pm by Barbarossa the Seal God »
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Est Sularus Oth Mithas
The Artist Formerly Known as Barbarossa TSG
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