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Total Members Voted: 9

[slMagnvox]

Ok, browsing back through the thread looks like we've got a Ry'leh too?  I am also flexible with nation selection but we'll call me Ulm for the time being.

Fixed starts trade an ounce of suspense for a pound of balance.  Sometimes it is that suspense that really makes the recipe.  Of course playing a resource heavy nation and spawning your capitol on a plain bordering two swamps could be kind of a bummer.  Knowing everyone is going to be on somewhat equal footing is worth the trade off in my opinion.

Though full disclosure, I don't really know how the game chooses start locations when they aren't preset.  We did rather well in Urraparand, but I suspect the way it chose our start sites was not completely random.  Everyone started (to the best of my knowledge) on a mountain province (mine was mt/farm and Mictlan had mt/farm/forest) that bordered exactly 4 land provinces and 1 water.

[Belac]

If someone knows how to program it, we could have bering with random starts. 

Alternatively, we could give up on having multiple water nations, or any water nations, if people would rather do that.

[EuchreJack]

What may also be an option to accomidate the balance/suspense equation is implementing more start sites.  So instead of having 7 nations for 7 start sites (current Bering Strait), we have something like 14 start sites for 7 nations.

Admitedly, the water nations will benefit more, as it will be easier to find alternate start sites for them.

[E. Albright]

What do we want to look for in start positions? I'm willing to walk through the map editor and strike undesirable provinces from the list of eligible starts, but I'd need to know A) which map, and B) what criteria to select for.

We did rather well in Urraparand, but I suspect the way it chose our start sites was not completely random.  Everyone started (to the best of my knowledge) on a mountain province (mine was mt/farm and Mictlan had mt/farm/forest) that bordered exactly 4 land provinces and 1 water.

Lies and slander! I assure you I didn't get a mountain capital, and I had more borders than just 5. 

More seriously, Urraparand has no limits on start positions, so if we want to judge the ones picked to be good, we must assume the program is semi-intelligent in this regard, or we just plain got lucky.

[EuchreJack]

I glanced through the map editor and see two ways of "introducing randomness" (please correct me if I'm wrong E. Albright or anyone else):

Editing out and editing in refers to disallowing a site as a starting site with random, and allowing a site as a starting site with fixed.  Unless we're desperate for start sites, the map is unlikely to see any other alteration.

On retrospect...map editing will require editing the map file and using the ingame editing (mainly for convenience).  The question is whether to select predetermined start sites and edit in eligible sites, or not select predetermined start sites and edit out bad start sites.  It'll basically come down to two things:
Which list (bad start site or good start site) is longer, and
Which list is produced more or less first?

Also, if someone is going to edit the map, one idea I'll mention is the removal of the worldwrap.  While it will lead to cornering and other bad things, it just seems more authentic to the area.  You can't go south of Alaska and get back to Alaska without hitting the South Pole (not shown).  There is no land bridge between North America (mostly missing, but Alaska is part of it) and Europe (not shown), except the Bering Strait.  It seems more accurate to me to assume that the nations can only get from one land mass to the other by the Bering Strait, or water travel.

Because of the balance problems removing the worldmap would produce, editing in good start sites is more likely.

[E. Albright]

Actually, skimming over Bering in the map editor suggests it's already had the worst starting locations nixed. Any province that is Small or has less than 4 land borders is already marked as ineligible as a start position. If there are any more criteria we want added, it'd probably be easier to remove additional locations than to try to figure out 7 more "balanced" starts to add.

Assuming we are agreed upon using Bering, obviously.

[Belac]

Unless we go with 1 water nation or no water nations, I think random-start Bering is my favorite of the choices.  As to removing the worldwrap, I think we should at least have it wrap one direction.  Corner or edge starting positions are quite advantageous.

Failing that, Europe is cool.

For that matter, with random starts Bering might work for 6, so we could start with who we have now. 

[E. Albright]

The annoying thing is that Llamaserver doesn't let you disable fixed starts on the fly. We'd need to mod them out of the map file and upload it before setting up the game.

If we go with Bering and six players, either the water nations will be at a mild disadvantage in terms of elbow room (with two) or a marked advantage (with one). Something to think about. FWIW, I've warmed to the idea of playing MA Atlantis over Marigon. I'm still willing to do either, though.

Oh, and I'd prefer worldwrap if we doing Bering. Europe with one or two more would be perfectly fine too.

[Belac]

If we go for Bering with 6, water nations would also find getting on land mildly easier, with one less competitor there. 

I would be fine with that, Bering with 1 more, Europe, or even another map for 1 or no water nations.

[E. Albright]

And everyone else? What're your opinions? Decide, decide!

[Il Palazzo]

By the grace bestowed upon him by a nameless and generlly nondescript, not to mention powerless, entity, for convenience's sake called God from now on, Il Palazzo decrees what follows:
Do Bering, even with one water it's still better than non-wraparound Europe.

[Belac]

I am going away on vacation from now until the 5th of January.  I hope to come back to find a consensus on the board/number of players.

If it is decided that we go with no water players, or if people would rather go with 1 water player and E.Albright doesn't want to go back to Marignon, I will take Abysia.  Otherwise, I will stick with R'lyeh.

[E. Albright]

I'd prefer Atlantis at this point but would have no problem going with Mara if your heart was set on R'lyeh or the collective heart was set on a dry fight.

[Belac]

If people want a 1-water nation map (Aran?  Parganos?) I would be fine with R'lyeh or Abysia. 

[E. Albright]

Okay, we're both waffling. If we do a 1+ water map, I'll take Atlantis. Dry, Mara.