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Author Topic: Gate Keeper Noble  (Read 5470 times)

Impaler[WrG]

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Gate Keeper Noble
« on: December 16, 2009, 02:14:31 am »

This is a spin off from another thread ware I suggested a noble that would control the gate or door to your fort.  After a bit of brainstorming I'm fleshing out the idea and looking for feedback.

First off the Gatekeeper has to be under the players nominal control for this to be a useful noble (their should really be a distinction between the useful 'bureaucrats' and the useless 'aristocracy', this guy will be a member of the former which people generally like).  The player has to put a Doorway or bridge under the control of the Gate Keeper for anything to happen, this would just appear as a new option in the door menu as a kind of in-between lock and unlock. 

Second creatures need to understand that doors can be opened for them, especially caravans and traders, wagons shouldn't bypass the fort if the drawbridge is up, rather then come to the edge of the bridge or door and 'present themselves' for admittance.  Which in game mechanic speak means they telepathically transmit their desire to pass through the door to the GateKeeper, they then wait a reasonable time before trying another path or leaving in a huff.  The GateKeeper will either accept or reject the request (more on this later) and if accepted an open door request will be initiated.  Note that only Keeper controlled doors will licit this wait behavior, locked doors are just passed over as they are now.

Actually opening the door/bridge might require a lever pull in which case the player will need to indicate which lever is appropriate to pull at the time they set the bridge/door in question to Gate Keeper control.  For a conventional door the GateKeeper dutifully comes over and opens it.  Or if the player chooses on the door menu a member of the Fortress Guard may open the door, much like the Trade Depot allows someone other then the designated Trader to trade.  Their might be some downside to this but I'm not sure what would be appropriate yet.

Lastly the ability of the Gate Keeper to reject some prospective entrants needs to be controlled on the Noble screen as this is THE key feature for a Gate Keeper.  Theirs almost no end to the possibilities here, the simplest options would naturally be to accept or reject the various trade caravans, don't like elves (and don't want the bother of cleaning up the drowned bodies) just don't let them in, they should eventually get the idea and stop coming all together.  If some of the ideas on random visitors are ever implemented theirs another thing you can keep out.  Perhaps you can let in merchants only if their buying or if their selling or have a particular commodity.  Migrants are another thing people want to have control over but theirs already an excellent thread discussing an officer specifically tasked with population management which is a very different issue so I'm loath to try to control immigration through the Gate Keeper.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 02:19:09 am by Impaler[WrG] »
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Neonivek

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Re: Gate Keeper Noble
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2009, 02:20:11 am »

Here is a question: Why does the Gatekeeper need to be a Noble?
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Doomshifter

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Re: Gate Keeper Noble
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2009, 02:34:23 am »

Here is a question: Why does the Gatekeeper need to be a Noble?
Because it'd be silly to have a whole bunch of dabbling gatekeepers.
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Neonivek

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Re: Gate Keeper Noble
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2009, 02:36:25 am »

Here is a question: Why does the Gatekeeper need to be a Noble?
Because it'd be silly to have a whole bunch of dabbling gatekeepers.

Why even make it a seperate job? Why not deligate it to the military squad?

Or heck, why is that even a reason? Don't make everyone a gatekeeper.
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Amalgam

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Re: Gate Keeper Noble
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2009, 03:11:57 am »

Isn't pulling levers the only thing nobles do anyway? :D

j/k. I agree caravans shouldn't bypass your site just because the bridge is up. After all, how do they even know the site's inaccessible? I think they should appear at the edge of the map and wait a while for the bridge to be raised before losing patience and leaving, there could be an activity zone to mark where they should wait if there isn't a way to figure out where your entrance is... They could possibly path through buildings like building destroyers do and path over open space to the depot and stop short where they can't get any further, but I foresee players accidentally dropping a bridge on them if they did this. So maybe a caravan "safety zone" would be appropriate. As for the gatekeeper himself... I'm not entirely sure. It doesn't seem like he's doing enough work to be a noble, and he's not royalty either. It sort of seems like you could just instruct your dwarves to do this, and even then there's times you might not want the bridge to be open, like during a siege or if you're trying to keep your dwarves in because of dangerous wildlife. I'm not sure automating the process would have much gain.
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silhouette

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Re: Gate Keeper Noble
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2009, 04:39:57 am »

Seems too little of a job for a noble itself, a better thing would be for checkpoints instead.
They be buildings and have a set timer on them or conditions with them...
E.g. checkpoint one accepting caravans and leads to checkpoint two where it will wait till otherwise.
Or it could be like checkpoint one accepting caravans and then diverting them to the trade depote
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darkflagrance

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Re: Gate Keeper Noble
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2009, 05:01:52 am »

I like this idea simply for the fact that I could have someone in my fort with the title "Gatekeeper" who is actually functional.
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Neonivek

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Re: Gate Keeper Noble
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2009, 05:04:28 am »

I like this idea simply for the fact that I could have someone in my fort with the title "Gatekeeper" who is actually functional.

Which you would immediately kill and never use under the Noble system
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darkflagrance

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Re: Gate Keeper Noble
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2009, 07:57:05 am »

I like this idea simply for the fact that I could have someone in my fort with the title "Gatekeeper" who is actually functional.

Which you would immediately kill and never use under the Noble system

This is an appointed noble. There is a difference. When is the last time you saw your Bookkeeper or Trader Broker give a mandate for Adamantine?

Edit: I meant to write Broker.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 11:11:22 am by darkflagrance »
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Neonivek

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Re: Gate Keeper Noble
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2009, 08:34:39 am »

Trader isn't a Noble, though it is rather complicated.

I remember needing to make a bunch of rooms for my Book Keeper
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Foa

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Re: Gate Keeper Noble
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2009, 09:14:26 am »

Here is a question: Why does the Gatekeeper need to be a Noble?
Because it'd be silly to have a whole bunch of dabbling gatekeepers.

Why even make it a seperate job? Why not deligate it to the military squad?

Or heck, why is that even a reason? Don't make everyone a gatekeeper.
... Quote one, you beat quote two, and quote three you set quote two aflame.
Anyways, just say that the military squad is dedicated to said gate, and and have three military units designated to the lever. ( to protect from sabotuers )
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darkflagrance

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Re: Gate Keeper Noble
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2009, 11:13:10 am »

Trader isn't a Noble, though it is rather complicated.

I remember needing to make a bunch of rooms for my Book Keeper

Maybe that was in 2d? Book keepers and Managers need at most a chair, which you can assign from your dining room, or just build one in the middle of nowhere.

This isn't much different from assigning said Gatekeeper a bridge to guard/lever to pull. Brokers don't need a single thing.

Personally, I think this is a very flavorful feature/bloat that is probably reflected in some of the Powergoals where adventurers walk up to cities and get rejected by guards.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 11:15:04 am by darkflagrance »
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Safe-Keeper

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Re: Gate Keeper Noble
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2009, 12:26:12 pm »

Anyone remember how in Age of Empires II (and prolly III, can't remember), gates automatically opened when friendlies came near them, but didn't when enemies arrived? This could actually be implemented in DF by means of gate-keeper.

Friendlies closing on doorway, gate-keeper opens door. Friendlies through, gate-keeper closes door.

Me likes.
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Virex

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Re: Gate Keeper Noble
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2009, 01:27:27 pm »

Here is a question: Why does the Gatekeeper need to be a Noble?
Because it'd be silly to have a whole bunch of dabbling gatekeepers.

Why even make it a seperate job? Why not deligate it to the military squad?

Or heck, why is that even a reason? Don't make everyone a gatekeeper.
... Quote one, you beat quote two, and quote three you set quote two aflame.
Anyways, just say that the military squad is dedicated to said gate, and and have three military units designated to the lever. ( to protect from sabotuers )

Would be a good idea to make gatekeeper a position within the military then. Would fith the flavour better then a civilian position.
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KenboCalrissian

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Re: Gate Keeper Noble
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2009, 08:10:47 pm »

I like giving this job to the Fortress Guard.  My guards need something better to do than make my nobles happy with hugs and justice.
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