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[Boksi]

Blacken, it's obvious that you're a professional. Please stop bludgeoning us with big technical words. Or small ones. I know you're trying to explain them, but you're expecting fundamental, basic knowledge of MIDI structure of us. Some of us don't even have that.

And bluntness and rudeness have some serious overlap. If I told someone "You're a balding, middleaged man who's stuck in a thankless job and hasn't achieved any of his lifelong goals and that's pathetic" I would be both blunt and rude. Bluntness is like hitting someone in the face with a hammer, only the hammer is made of truth. And hitting people in the face with a hammer is, to say at least, rather rude.

Oh yes, and I use Anvil because it's simple. The most complex features I use are transposing and panning; I don't need Auto-Superchord Table Multisynthesizing or whatever. You're a professional and probably hold things up to high standards and it's like you can't comprehend that someone can be content to wallow in mediocrity simply because it's comfortable. I've checked out Reaper and I didn't like what I saw. It looked like it would take a while to learn all that stuff and to be honest, I wouldn't even use most of it.

To conflate: Blacken is pro, nobody else here is, and there is a difference of values and standards.

[Armok]

My (un?)logic: Blacken is a profesional, evryone else is not, therefore i will agree with evrything Blacken says and ignore what other peaple say if they contradic him. Is this a valid reasoning?

[Boksi]

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

That goes for my advice as well.

[Blacken]

I can't find the free download fro Reaper, after looking evrywhere, can you give a more spesific link?

Every download of REAPER is a free download; the evaluation version includes the entire application. This is a direct link to Reaper 3.161 32-bit; you shouldn't bother with the 64-bit version, even on a 64-bit operating system, unless you have 64-bit drivers for your tools and 64-bit versions of your VSTs (I know you don't have any right now, but still, keep in mind). (This shouldn't be confused with what I said about Anvil--Anvil can't run on x64 because it uses deprecated Win16 libraries, and given how little support has been put into the application in the last decade, it shows no signs of joining the 21st century.)

Also, sounds like I need to learn this "music theory", any good 5 page introductions with the basics?

I honestly don't know of any good, short introductions, because there's a lot of material out there. I just asked a friend of mine who recommended this as a basic primer; it talks about a lot of stuff because there's a lot you need to know. The other stuff on that site seems more guitar-based, and might be worth reading but isn't very germane as far as I can tell. Google gave me this, which might be a little better.

Blacken, it's obvious that you're a professional. Please stop bludgeoning us with big technical words. Or small ones. I know you're trying to explain them, but you're expecting fundamental, basic knowledge of MIDI structure of us. Some of us don't even have that.

A professional? Hell, no! I'm very much an amateur. But I am an amateur with a grasp of my tools and an understanding of what I am doing, cultured by practice and a willingness to go research what I don't know.

And--bludgeoning? Really? Complaining about my expectation of very basic (and I mean basic as in "you need this to do anything," not "everything is built on top of this," although there is a significant overlap) knowledge is silly when you have Wikipedia at your fingertips. I've made an effort to provide very abridged explanations of what I'm talking about when I think there is confusion, but the onus is not on me to copy-paste Wikipedia's very good explanations at all times for you. Honestly, you could spend twenty minutes reading the Interfaces, Controllers, Messages, and Hardware Transports sections of the wiki article on MIDI and know everything you'd ever need to know.

Don't know what VSTs are? Look on Wikipedia.

Don't know what automation is? Look on Wikipedia.

It's not that hard. Looking up both of those was as simple as punching "vst wiki" and "audio automation wiki" into Google. If you are committed to having a good discussion and maybe even learning something, then you'll do your research. It's as simple as that. You can think I'm an asshole for expecting a little effort on your part, but in all honesty, with no disrespect intended, that's all it is: a little effort. I mean, would you go try to drive a car without knowing how shifting gears works, why first gear has more torque than fourth? This is basic stuff that you need to know in order to effectively create music (as it seems fairly clear the OP wants to create music, not write music/compose in a vacuum), it's not hard but it takes some effort, and once you know it you can get on with doing everything else.

Mind you, if Wikipedia isn't clear on something, by all means ask and I'd be happy to explain it in as much detail as you want, up to the limits of what I know. (It'd be a good hint as to what Wikipedia articles need updating; I've edited some of the audio production ones in the past.)

And bluntness and rudeness have some serious overlap. If I told someone "You're a balding, middleaged man who's stuck in a thankless job and hasn't achieved any of his lifelong goals and that's pathetic" I would be both blunt and rude. Bluntness is like hitting someone in the face with a hammer, only the hammer is made of truth. And hitting people in the face with a hammer is, to say at least, rather rude.

Turn off your ego and read what is written rather than what you think is being written. I'm saying nothing untrue and I'm writing in the most direct method to ensure that I am not misconstrued. Unambiguity is worth a great deal to me, and I endeavor to be as precise as possible. If it helps you to mentally tack "no offense intended" to every sentence you read, feel free to do so; I would think it otherwise implied, 'cause you'll know when I'm trying to offend.

Oh yes, and I use Anvil because it's simple. The most complex features I use are transposing and panning; I don't need Auto-Superchord Table Multisynthesizing or whatever. You're a professional and probably hold things up to high standards and it's like you can't comprehend that someone can be content to wallow in mediocrity simply because it's comfortable. I've checked out Reaper and I didn't like what I saw. It looked like it would take a while to learn all that stuff and to be honest, I wouldn't even use most of it.

Again, I am not a professional, but quite literally, to duplicate what Anvil does, it would take...maybe five minutes, even ignoring every other feature theat REAPER has:

-download Reaper
-download CVPiano
-install Reaper
-install CVPiano
-start Reaper
-select CVPiano
-play

I am not surprised by the Anvil love because I think it's a bad program (although I do think it is, and the developer's piecemeal sales strategy is pretty shitty), but because I operate on the assumption that people want to get better at their craft and produce better work; the upside--what you can do as you learn and progress in actually making music--of Anvil is incredibly low, while a DAW that was updated within the last few years is probably much higher. It makes no difference to me what you use, but I would think that your own self-interest might outweigh your dislike of change. If you like Anvil, awesome and I genuinely hope it works for you, but don't ever buy a computer running a 64-bit operating system, 'cause you'll be forced to switch then anyway.

To conflate: Blacken is pro, nobody else here is, and there is a difference of values and standards.

I think that word means something other than what you think it means.

[Boksi]

...This is turning into an argument on the internet. I'm calling it quits rather than trying to argue further because it's not like we're going to understand each others viewpoints no matter how much we argue :B

[Blacken]

I have no intention to argue, but I'm honestly curious (and this is an aside, forgive me OP, but I think it's reasonable given the last few posts, there's a lot there for you to be going on with). Do you think that everything should always be self-evident and handed to someone? Or is it reasonable to expect a little research when something that is technical in nature is under discussion?

[Boksi]

Normally, people discussing things should know what they're discussing, but this is a thread supposed to discuss learning to write music, so you can't expect people to have all that knowledge.

Also, I dislike using Wikipedia to learn completely new things because it tends to be too detailed and complex. The article on MIDI, for example, isn't MIDI 101, it's MIDI 101 through 109 or however those numbers work, all crammed together.

[Armok]

Thanks! I have downloaded reaper (althou I didn't manage to even get it to make sound, and wont have time to explore it properly for a few days, it looks promising) and those music theory links also look good! If this turn out well, AND I manage to actualy make something decent, you might see something in Creative Projects here on the forums in a few weeks!

[Blacken]

Normally, people discussing things should know what they're discussing, but this is a thread supposed to discuss learning to write music, so you can't expect people to have all that knowledge.

I can expect them to be willing to learn. It's like that programming thread in this forum: you're going to find that most people help those who help themselves. Doing your own research and attempting to understand the topic is part of the game.

And as for "learning to write music," that's somewhat up in the air. You'll note that one of my first questions (actually, the first entirely) was whether he was talking about writing music (Finale, etc.) or creating music (Reason, Audition, Logic, etc.). He responded to the latter, which is production software instead of composition software. As such, I've been operating on the assumption that he wants to produce--which is kind of more useful anyway than simply composing in Finale, unless you have a band in your back pocket--and as such my recommendations and my topics of discussion are germane to learning to do so. If all he wants to do is compose, then even Finale probably has the basic sessioning he would need, and a DAW is overkill and not what he wants. But everything I've mentioned has been directly related to how production just plain works. It's stuff that is very much in the "should know" category, and if you don't, it is a hint that you should be doing some reading.

(I don't mean to knock composition above, it's just that it's a very different toolset. It is a faster method, I think, toward a goal that is more refined in scope, while production is a slower set of skills to acquire that can do much more. They are similar, but I would submit that production is a superset of composition.)

Also, I dislike using Wikipedia to learn completely new things because it tends to be too detailed and complex. The article on MIDI, for example, isn't MIDI 101, it's MIDI 101 through 109 or however those numbers work, all crammed together.

I don't agree. It's a very straightforward article, even from a neophyte perspective--it's what I read to get a general overview of the topic, and I wasn't at all versed in it beforehand. And if there's overload there, there are tons of references at the bottom of the article that can be followed. Again--it's just not that hard. My twelve-year-old brother's done it, without a lot of help from me. It can be done, and to have a discussion that's useful, kind of has to be done.

I mean, this jargon--and there's not really a lot of it--is how electronic production is discussed. You can't effectively produce music until you know your tools (which means a lot of practice and, yes, studying). You can't know your tools until you know the language to put them in context*. You can't know the language, the jargon, without doing research.

* - I don't mean that you have to know what a DIN plug is and what the serial rate over-the-wire is, although it's probably a good idea to be able to at least recognize a DIN plug on sight. But knowing how MIDI works, what velocity is and how it's measured--that sort of thing is just kind of required. If somebody doesn't want to do that, then they're probably better off buying themselves some sheet paper and an acoustic piano, but the specialized knowledge necessary for that is really no easier.

In any case, if that's not how you like to learn, then perhaps time spent saying "don't use technical terms" could be better spent on learning the way you find most effective. But complaining tells me that you can't be fucked to learn, rather than that you're genuinely interested in the topic. As you're not the OP, that doesn't really matter to me; I was writing for his benefit, not yours. But I think the topic would be much better off if people who found that technical terms were beyond them took that as a challenge to learn, rather than a stumbling block to complain about.

Thanks! I have downloaded reaper (althou I didn't manage to even get it to make sound, and wont have time to explore it properly for a few days, it looks promising) and those music theory links also look good! If this turn out well, AND I manage to actualy make something decent, you might see something in Creative Projects here on the forums in a few weeks!

Awesome! I look forward to it.

[eerr]

Wait, there was actually supposed to be a purpose to music theory class?
Dam, I thought it was supposed to be some...
Well I don't think the professor ever found out my attitude.
Let's leave it at that.

As for making midis, I think many people make little bytes that sound good and put them together later. Unless you want to go study a particular style...

[Blacken]

As for making midis, I think many people make little bytes that sound good and put them together later. Unless you want to go study a particular style...

I don't claim to be particularly good, but in popular music, if you go that route, generally you pick one of the common (or uncommon) chord progressions and adjust it to fit the rhythm and beat you've established for your drum line. There are a lot of fairly well-known ones that are reworked in a lot of songs. In the key of C, one of the more iconic ones I can think of is from Ritchie Valens' "La Bamba", which is I - I - IV -V (C chord, C chord, F chord, D chord); you can find the same progression, with different notes or even the same notes in a different beat, in a number of different songs.

EDIT: That being the melody for the verse, that is - most songs are something like Intro - Verse - Chorus - Verse - Chorus - Bridge - Verse - Chorus - Outro or some similar permutations.

[eerr]

Sounds good.
or rather, that's the target.